Urdu : Barr-e Āzam (بر اعظم) and its plural

[Dastgir]

The Urdu word for continent is برِّ اعظم (Barr-e Āzam) which is two different words. But usually it's written as a single word (براعظم).

Google translates its plural i.e continents as براعظموں (barr-e āzamoñ). But seeing as برّ is the main noun which اعظم modifies, what would be the Arabic plural of برّ , and how would the word "continents" be translated using that plural? (For example رسم الخط pluralizes to رسوم الخط instead of رسم الخطوں*)

And similarly what's the correct translation the adjective "continental"? Will براعظمی be correct considering the above logic?

 

[Alexu]

Plural in direct case has the form برِّ اعظم ( براعظموں - this is an oblique ).

 

[Dastgir]

Plural in direct case has the form برِّ اعظم ( براعظموں - this is an oblique ).

Hi Alexu,

I'm aware of this usage where the term براعظم is treated as a single word, and conjugated as a masculine noun.

What I'm looking for is the arabic plural of the word برّ (Barr) meaning "land", and whether it can be used in Urdu in order to distinguish between singular and plural, instead of just using the same word for both in the direct case.

 

[Alexu]

It seems that there is a separate form for the plural. (I don't know how common it is)

نقشہ ساز نے جنوبی اور شمالی برور اعظم کو ظاہر کرنے کے لیے امریکا کا لفظ چُنا

From here

 

[Dastgir]

It seems that there is a separate form for the plural. (I don't know how common it is)

From here

Thanks. I guess the usual usage is way too common for it not to be considered acceptable. But this info certainly helps.

 

[Alfaaz]

Relevant thread: Urdu: فارسی/عربی اضافتوں کی حامل تراکیب کی جمع

Another potential option:

• continent - قارّہ​
  • continents - قارّات
    
    • continental - قارّی

 

[Alfaaz]

Will براعظمی be correct considering the above logic?

Examples from a science article:

انیسویں صدی میں براعظموں کی حرکات اور علیحدگی سے منسلک ایک ’’مفروضہ‘‘ نے جنم لیا، جس کی بازگشت دنیا بھر کے سائنسی حلقوں میں سنائی دے رہی تھی۔
...
اس خیال کو ایک ’’مفروضہ‘‘ (عملی طور پر غیر مستند) کے حوالے سے ایک عرصہ دراز تک ’’براعظمی علیحدگی‘‘ (Continental Drift) کے طور پر صرف قبول عام کی سند حاصل رہی، کیوں کہ عملی شواہد اور دلائل ناکافی تھیں لیکن سائنسی ’’جہدِ مسلسل‘‘ یعنی نت نئے تجربات ارضی نقشہ جات، اعداد وشمار، ارضی طبعی سروے اور میدانی مشاہدات کی بنیاد پر اہل سائنس نے انیسویں صدی کے پیش کردہ ’’مفروضہ‘‘ کو 1960ء کے عشرے میں ایک انقلاب آفریں دریافت قراردے کر) ’’نظریہ‘‘ عملی طور پر مستند)کے درجہ پر فائز کردیا۔

ارضی تہوں کی حرکت

تسلیم اشرف - اسسٹنٹ پروفیسر، سابق صدر - شعبہ ارضیات وفاقی اردو یونیورسٹی​

 

[Qureshpor]

what would be the Arabic plural of برّ , and how would the word "continents" be translated using that plural? (For example رسم الخط pluralizes to رسوم الخط instead of رسم الخطوں*)

I am not sure if there is a plural of the Arabic word for "بَرّ". I've posted a query in the Arabic forum. If there is, I'll get back to you.

 

[Alfaaz]

I am not sure if there is a plural of the Arabic word for "بَرّ". I've posted a query in the Arabic forum.

Does the word بَرّ (land) have a plural? I've tried searching for it without success.

Hava (page 25) lists بُرُور as the plural of برّ with the meaning inland, continent. (Also, قاموس الوحید page 159.)

Let's see what the Arabic forum suggests. Steingass has other plurals, but those are with the meanings of pious, نیک, etc.

 

[Dastgir]

I am not sure if there is a plural of the Arabic word for "بَرّ". I've posted a query in the Arabic forum. If there is, I'll get back to you.

Great, QP.

Eager to see what they suggest.

 

[Qureshpor]

Great, QP.

Eager to see what they suggest.

Hava (page 25) lists بُرُور as the plural of برّ with the meaning inland, continent. (Also, قاموس الوحید page 159.)

Only contemporary dictionaries like الوسيط and الغني mention a plural form which is بُرور, it doesn't exist in early dictionaries. It's used in Algerian and probably in other dialects.

So, it appears that "buruur" is the plural for "barr" although it's not found in Wehr.

Further to what has been said already, "barr-i-a3zam" is considered to be a compound word and therefore, in my humble opinion "buruur-i-a3zam" would look rather odd. Besides, if we use "buruur", we 'll need to use a plural adjective as well, perhaps. I don't know if you've had a chance to look at the thread @Alfaaz SaaHib has mentioned in his post.

فارسی/عربی اضافتوں کی حامل تراکیب کی جمع

 

[Alfaaz]

Besides, if we use "buruur", we 'll need to use a plural adjective as well, perhaps.

براہ مہربانی، کیا آپ اپنے مختلف زبانوں کے علم کی روشنی میں ان مبہم نکات کو آشکار/واضح کر سکتے ہیں؟

• برورِ کِبار یا برورِ کُبَراء...؟ اگر subcontinent کے لیے "برِّ سغیر" مستعمل ہے تو continent کے لیے "برِّ کبیر" قابلِ استعمال ہے؟

• کیا اس کا مطلب ہے کہ ایسی تراکیب میں صفات کی بھی جموع استعمال ہونا چاہئیں؟ اس حساب سے کیا "وزراء اعلی" بھی غلط ہے؟

تنبیہ/نوٹ: تمام سوالات محض علمی و لسانی تمرین/مشق کے طور پر پوچھے گئے ہیں۔ جیسا کہ پہلے پیش کردہ امثلہ و گفتگو سے واضح ہے، اردو میں "برِّ اعظم" ہی عام طور پر مستعمل ہے۔ ​

 

[Dastgir]

• کیا اس کا مطلب ہے کہ ایسی تراکیب میں صفات کی بھی جمع استعمال ہونا چاہئیں؟ اس حساب سے کیا "وزراء اعلی" بھی غلط ہے؟ ​

Had the same question. I couldn't find any results in Google whatsoever for "وزرائے اعالی" (Wuzarā e A'āli), where اعالی would be the plural of اعلیٰ, but could find many of وزرائے اعلیٰ .

 

[Qureshpor]

Had the same question. I couldn't find any results in Google whatsoever for "وزرائے اعالی" (Wuzarā e A'āli), where اعالی would be the plural of اعلیٰ, but could find many of وزرائے اعلیٰ .

The thing is, as per Insha Khan Insha's ruling, we need to follow what is accepted within the Urdu framework, whether a word or construction is deemed right or wrong in the language of its origin. برِّ اعظم is acceptable but بُرورِ اعظم seems dubious because one seems to be adding an adjective to "buruur" (land masses), the whole term being equivalent to "great landmasses". برِّ اعظم on the other hand is understood as "a continent" and not "a great landmass".

وزیرِ اعلیٰ does not have one comound word reflecting its meaning but two words, "chief minister". So, if one has وزراءِ اعلیٰ one can relate to "chief ministers".

If we can have اسلامی سربراہی کانفرنس where sar ba-raah means "leader", then we can have "برِّ اعظمی افریقہ".