Urdu-Hindi: aa'e hai vs aataa hai

Qureshpor

Senior Member
Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
In a recent thread Faylassof SaaHib brought up the topic of "aa'e hai" vs "aataa hai". It appeared to me if this is a topic which is of interest to Faylasoof SaaHib.:)

Let me start the ball rolling by providing a "conjugation" for these two forms.


maiN aa'uuN huuN
ham aa'eN haiN (Note! Not the same as "ham aa'e haiN"!)

tuu aa'e hai
tum aa'o ho

vuh aa'e hai
vuh aa'eN haiN (Again, not the same as "vuh aa'e haiN")
................................................

maiN aataa huuN
ham aate haiN

tuu aataa hai
tum aate ho

vuh aataa hai
vuh aate haiN

..........................................................................................

Just to connect it with a bit of quality literature...

vuh aa'e* ghar meN hamaare, Khudaa kii qudrat hai
kabhii ham un ko kabhii apne ghar ko dekhte haiN

Ghalib

* aa'e here actually is aa'e haiN = They have come [She has come] and is therefore not linked to the first type of tense. However, some people quote the above couplet as:

vuh aa'eN ghar meN hamaare, Khudaa kii qudrat hai
kabhii ham un ko kabhii apne ghar ko dekhte haiN
......

dekhnaa qismat kih aap apne pih rashk aa jaa'e hai
maiN use dekhuuN, bhalaa kab mujh se dekhaa jaa'e hai

Ghalib

Now, this has the same tense as the first type.

OK, ladies and gents. Let's have your views on the two forms! How do they relate to each other?
 
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  • souminwé

    Senior Member
    North American English, Hindi
    I don't think this form exists (maiM aauuM huuM definitely does not exist). Aae hai is not the "subjunctive" form of the verb, but simply aaya agreeing with a masculine plural.

    The chart should be something like:

    aaya hai, aae haiM, aayi hai, aayiM haiM

    Past subjunctive would be aaya ho, I believe.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I don't think this form exists (maiM aauuM huuM definitely does not exist).

    Oh yes it does! Otherwise, why would I have bothered to start this thread?:)

    Aae hai is not the "subjunctive" form of the verb, but simply aaya agreeing with a masculine plural.

    No, it is neither the former nor the latter!

    The chart should be something like:

    aaya hai, aae haiM, aayi hai, aayiM haiM

    No, the above is a totally seperate tense form.Let's hope that others join in with the discussion and then all will be revealed!

    Past subjunctive would be aaya ho, I believe.
     

    amiramir

    Senior Member
    English-USA
    Hi,

    I have never in my life heard of such a verb form. In the hopes that I could shed some light on it, I poured over all my grammar books, but can't find a trace of it. Sorry.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hi,

    I have never in my life heard of such a verb form. In the hopes that I could shed some light on it, I poured over all my grammar books, but can't find a trace of it. Sorry.


    May I then respectfully suggest that you have the wrong grammar books!
    :)

    جو کوئی آوے ہے نزدیک ہی بیٹھے ہے ترے
    ہم کہاں تک ترے پہلو سے سرکتے جاویں

    jo ko'ii aave hai nazdiik hii baiThe hai tire
    ham kahaaN tak tire pahluu se sarakte jaaveN

    Miir Hassan Dehlavii

    Everyone who comes in, wants to sit close by you!
    How long must I keep shifting away from your side?
     
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    amiramir

    Senior Member
    English-USA
    Hi,

    I'm not being combative. If there's a tense I haven't heard of, I would love to know about it. I'm just saying that I've poured over all my grammar books, and it's definitely not there. (Also while not a fluent speaker, I have heard Hindustani my whole life and have never come across it-- not that this proves anything). But I am very happy to be proven wrong.

    The only thing I'd say is the Mir Hasan Delhavi was a contemporary of Khusrao, if I'm not mistaken. Which places them in the 1300s. Perhaps 'main aaun hun' and the associated conjugations are an obsolete/dialectical form.

    I would be thrilled if someone told me they used 'main aaun hun' on a daily basis. It's what keeps life interesting.
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hi,

    I'm not being combative. If there's a tense I haven't heard of, I would love to know about it. I'm just saying that I've poured over all my grammar books, and it's definitely not there. (Also while not a fluent speaker, I have heard Hindustani my whole life and have never come across it-- not that this proves anything). But I am very happy to be proven wrong.

    The only thing I'd say is the Mir Hasan Delhavi was a contemporary of Khusrao, if I'm not mistaken. Which places them in the 1300s. Perhaps 'main aaun hun' and the associated conjugations are an obsolete/dialectical form.

    I would be thrilled if someone told me they used 'main aaun hun' on a daily basis. It's what keeps life interesting.

    amiramir SaaHib. I don't think anyone has suggested that this tense is still used in daily life within the modern language but at the same time I do not believe it is totally obsolete either. As you have put it, it is still quoted in "dialectical" dialogue in quality Urdu prose. I've typed these verb forms on the net and have found plenty of examples including those in the modern day writings of Mumtaz Mufti and Intizar Hussain.

    Mir Hassan Dehlavi's period was 1736/7-1786 and his language is remarkably "modern". But, one must not assume that this verb is not found in poetry dated after him. Indeed it is. Some of it, say Faraz, is perhaps written not so much as to express that it is modern usage, but to give the poet's work a feel of "antiquity" perhaps.

    Regarding grammar books, I believe you will find this tense (and one or two others which might surprise you!) in John.T.Platts's "A Grammar of the Hindustani or Urdu Language", first published in London in 1873.

     
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    amiramir

    Senior Member
    English-USA
    Hi,

    Cool. Thank you for the info. I didn't know any of that. My urdu poetry reading skills are sadly quite lacking...

    All the best,
    A
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hi,

    Cool. Thank you for the info. I didn't know any of that. My urdu poetry reading skills are sadly quite lacking...

    All the best,
    A


    Here are a few more examples.

    First person singular

    is qadar hai shauq nazzaare se apne yaar ko
    ruu ba-ruu dekhuuN huuN us ke paa ba-pahluu aa'ina

    Sauda

    First person plural and Second person singular

    I have not been able to find any examples.

    Second Person plural

    daaman pih ko'ii chhiiNT nah Khanjar pih ko'ii daaGh
    tum qatl karo ho kih karaamaat karo ho!

    Kaleem 'Aziz

    naa-Haq ham majbuuroN par yih tuhmat hai muKhtaarii kii
    chaahte haiN so aap kareN haiN ham ko 3ibas badnaam kiyaa

    Mir

    Third person singular

    dauRe hai phir har ek gul-o-laalah par Khayaal
    sad gulistaaN nigaah kaa saamaaN kiye hu'e

    Ghalib

    Third person plural

    muNh ko saaqii ke yuuN vuh dekheN haiN
    aag se juuN jale ko seNkeN haiN

    Sauda

    By the way, no one as yet has come up with any explanations behind the difference between "aa'e hai" and "aataa hai" forms. And just to throw a hammer in the works, take a look at the couplet below.

    jo kuchh puuchhe thaa ko'ii gaah-o-begaah
    javaab us ko vuh deve thaa bah ikraah

    Sauda
     
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