Urdu, Hindi: adaa (nah) denaa

MonsieurGonzalito

Senior Member
Spanish
In the poem and song "Mujhay Baar Baar", the poet (Hazrat "Baba" Gulzar Sabri) says he is not someone in an inferior position, asking for love out of poverty, but someone who choses love as a path, like an ascetic.

In the last verse, he uses an expression:

mujhe maangne kii adaa nah de

whose sense is more or less clear: "don't make me beg you", or perhaps "don't make me (give the appearance of) someone who begs".
But the grammar of it, I don't understand. Is there an "adaa dena" meaning "make (someone) be (something)", "to construe someone as something"?
I could not find anything like that in dictionaries.

The full verse for context:

میں گدا نہیں ہوں فقیر ہوں
میں قلندروں کا امیر ہوں
مجھے تجھ سے کچھ نہیں چاہئے
مجھے مانگنے کی ادا نہ دے
मैं गदा नहीं हूँ, फ़क़ीर हूँ
मैं क़लन्दरों का आमिर हूँ
मुझे तुझ से कुछ नहीं चाहिए
मुझे माँगने की अदा न दे

I am not a beggar, but an ascetic
I am the prince of the Qalandaris
I desire nothing from you
Do not ...???... me

Please, what exactly is adaa dena?
Thanks in advance.





 
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  • marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Hi, very often, it is good to put the interpretative mind to aside and focus on the simple meaning of words and grammatical constructions. You would first need to understand what ادا adaa means as a simple noun. The fact that it is employed with دینا denaa doesn't change the meaning of ادا. What does, is it's qualifier مانگنے کی maaNgne kii. It's basic grammar.

    mujhe nah de = don't give me.
    maaNgne kii adaa = ?
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Don't give me the "adaa" of begging/asking. Usually, "adaa" means "manner, style", but here it could mean "habit". Don't make me a habitual beggar.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    What does, is it's qualifier مانگنے کی maaNgne kii. It's basic grammar.

    mujhe nah de = don't give me.
    maaNgne kii adaa = ?
    For "adaa" there is a whole set of meanings with the idea of "accomplishment, carrying out, fulfillment, discharge (of a debt), making something whole, perfected, etc.

    Then, there is another line of meanings, maybe related, about grace, coquetry, demeanor, (female demeanor).

    Based on @littlepond interpretation, plus your suggestion that there is no real idiomatic construction here, I believe that "denaa" can be translated as "to attribute"

    And maybe "adaa denaa" has the slightly idiomatic sense of (falsely) ascribing to people certain behaviors.

    Do not attribute to me the conduct / habit of begging.

    (less literally)
    Do not regard me as a beggar.

    Thanks, @marrish , @littlepond !
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    There are two cardinal meanings for ادا adaa in Urdu because one occurence comes from Arabic and the second from Persian and the word is a homophone. Here, in my 'reading' it is the word from Persian which has been employed:

    P ادا adā , s.f. Grace, beauty; elegance; graceful manner on carriage; charm, fascination; blandishment; amorous signs and gestures, coquetry:—adā-fahm, adj. Understanding signs and gestures, skilled in the arts of blandishment:—adā-fahmī, s.f. Understanding of the arts of blandishment, &c.:—adā-karnā, To coquet:—adā-wālā, adj. Graceful, beautiful, elegant, &c.


    The one from Arabic, doesn't apply:

    A ادا adā , s.f. The act of bringing to completion, &c.; completion, perfection; performance; fulfilment; accomplishment; acquittance; payment or discharge (of a debt, &c.):—adā-bandī, s.f. Fixing a period for the performance of a contract, or for the payment of a debt; liquidation of a debt by instalments (=qist-bandī):—adā-ě-ḵẖidmat, Performance of service, discharge of duty:—adā-ě-zar-ě-ḍigrī, Payment of the sum decreed:—adā karnā, v.t. To perform; accomplish; fulfil; discharge; liquidate, pay; to effect or accomplish satisfactorily, properly, &c.:—adā honā, v.n. To be performed, accomplished, fulfilled, discharged; to be paid, liquidated; to be done, effected, or accomplished satisfactorily or properly, &c.; to be brought out, uttered or pronounced distinctly (a letter or word in reading); to be done for, undone, demolished, made an end of.

    I had something like 'don't offer the sollicited gestures to me'.
    maaNgne kii: that of asking: which have been asked for - not spontaneous.

    It is the main meaning: adaa'eN ادائیں - gestures, gait and gesticulation, graceful movements, even mannerism as @littlepond has said.


    And let me add on editing that a 'habit' is most frequently 3aadat عادت, but it is in no way related to ادا adaa.
     
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    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Thanks, @marrish
    That makes the poem all the more interesting. He is not speaking from a position of mystical superiority, "in love with love itself", but rather asking her to graduate her approaches to him, in order not to inflame his powerful love too much.

    I really appreciate your taking the time to further explain this.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    MonsieurGonzalito, I love your exegeses in opening and subsequent posts. It's a pleasure really to focus on your queries. He demands something authentic. But, but, but, it is my reading. It sticks to the basics, still, and I like it the most. Just after understanding the basic meaning one can try to reach a figurative one.

    Also, it's not so clear if it is a 'she', grammatically at least. Although the word adaa'eN is mostly associated with female grace.
     

    Frau Moore

    Member
    Deutsch
    I am just randomly browsing the forum and came across this entry.

    let´s say everybody agreed that "adaa" is meant as amorous sign or gesture in this context - so, when there is an amorous sign, there also must be an understanding of it. Does anybody know if their was a language of such amorous gestures by which a lover could indicate "yes" or "no" or whatsoever? The language of flowers just comes to my mind.


    Is it possible that "maaNgne kii adaa" was one special gesture out of such a nonverbal communication tool? A gesture of requesting something from the lover?


    At least that´s my understanding:
    mujhe tujh se kuch nahiiN caahie - I don´t want/need/request anything from you
    mujhe maaNgne kii adaa na de - don´t give me a "gesture of request" or in other words: don´t request anything from me neither

    I hope somebody will be able to satisfy my curiosity about a presumed language of gestures!
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    I will go with @marrish suggestion of interpreting the construction literally, "don't give me the coquetry of begging", and assume that the author means, with some semantic lassitude, "don't give me the coquetry of making me beg".
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    I wanted to point out that all across Spanish-speaking countries, "manguear" is slang for "to ask insistently, to importune asking".
    Plenty of Spanish slang words were contributed by the gypsies, and have a recognizable Indic origin.
     

    amiramir

    Senior Member
    English-USA
    I wanted to point out that all across Spanish-speaking countries, "manguear" is slang for "to ask insistently, to importune asking".
    Plenty of Spanish slang words were contributed by the gypsies, and have a recognizable Indic origin.
    I absolutely love that explanation. I wonder if it's true though? Not to take the thread off topic, but I always thought manguear comes from tirar la manga, which DRAE tells me comes from latin: manĭca (something relating to hands cf. english manacle). I would much prefer your explanation to be true though.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Del caló mangar. // from the caló language "mangar"
    1. tr. coloq. Pedir, mendigar. // transitive, colloquial: to ask, to beg

    2. tr. coloq. Hurtar, robar. // transitive, colloquial: to rob, to steal

    3. tr. coloq. Arg. y Ur. Pedir dinero prestado. // transitive, Argentina and Uruguay: to ask for a money loan

    4. tr. Cuba. timar (‖ quitar con engaño). //transitive, Cuba: to swindle, to take away through deception

    The "caló" is the Roma language, the gypsies' original Indic language.
    It is unrelated to "manga" (sleeve) or "mango, manija" (handle). One could picture how the gesture of pulling from someone's sleeve could lead to that conclusion, but I don't think ancient Romans had sleeves as such.

    There are many more slang words in this line: a "chorro" is a thief, universally in Spanish slang (unrelated to "chorro" as a jet of water), and so on.
     
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