Urdu/Hindi: Homosexual

[lcfatima]

In this article the author says

Perhaps it’s time to start re-defining these terms in our languages – Urdu has a term ‘humjinsi’ which means ‘outside of gender’ – to root them in our criss-crossed hued cartography of identity and of struggle to be included in the term ‘human’.

Does hamjinsi mean what the author says? If so, would that be widely understood as homosexual, or just in activist circles?

What are some other non-slang terms for homosexual in Hindi and Urdu?

 

[Qureshpor]

In this article the author says



Does hamjinsi mean what the author says? If so, would that be widely understood as homosexual, or just in activist circles?

What are some other non-slang terms for homosexual in Hindi and Urdu?

I don't know about Hindi but in Urdu, this is the word used in polite speech.

 

[flyinfishjoe]

Isn't the Hindi word for homosexual समलैंगिक samlaingik and homosexuality समलैंगिकता samlaingiktaa?

 

[BP.]

hamjinsii per se does not mean anything semblable to this.

ham-same and jins-kind/type. A vegetable vendor could say to his apprentice "ham jins sabziaa.n yakjaa rak.hoo" - "ہم جنس سبزیاں یکجا رکھو" - "keep similar vegetables together".

Now, jins is a very general word and is nowadays commonly used for gender. Nevertheless, hamjinsii is not a word used in this context. The author is mistaken.

The word you're looking for is ham jins parastii-ھم جنس پرستی. parast as in indulgent in.

 

[Sheikh_14]

hamjinsii per se does not mean anything semblable to this.

ham-same and jins-kind/type. A vegetable vendor could say to his apprentice "ham jins sabziaa.n yakjaa rak.hoo" - "ہم جنس سبزیاں یکجا رکھو" - "keep similar vegetables together".

Now, jins is a very general word and is nowadays commonly used for gender. Nevertheless, hamjinsii is not a word used in this context. The author is mistaken.

The word you're looking for is ham jins parastii-ھم جنس پرستی. parast as in indulgent in.

True as you may be but wouldn't hum jins parast rather signifiy sexist rather than homosexual, with the latter being represented with humjins pasand? Pasand suggests adoration for something whereas parast usually equates to the English suffix of -ist. For sexist people are more often than not, not homosexuals they are just supremacists..
I may be wrong if so some argumentation would help.

 

[iskander e azam]

My print dictionary has چپٹی کھیلنا as a term for lesbianism (female homosexuality).

 

[marrish]

My print dictionary has چپٹی کھیلنا as a term for lesbianism (female homosexuality).

This doesn't mean 'lesbianism' I'm afraid to say but a sexual act between women. Moreover it is a verb and is very vulgar – which disqualifies it as a neutral term for a homosexual female or male.

hamjinsii per se does not mean anything semblable to this.

ham-same and jins-kind/type. A vegetable vendor could say to his apprentice "ham jins sabziaa.n yakjaa rak.hoo" - "ہم جنس سبزیاں یکجا رکھو" - "keep similar vegetables together".

Now, jins is a very general word and is nowadays commonly used for gender. Nevertheless, hamjinsii is not a word used in this context. The author is mistaken.

The word you're looking for is ham jins parastii-ھم جنس پرستی. parast as in indulgent in.

True as you may be but wouldn't hum jins parast rather signifiy sexist rather than homosexual, with the latter being represented with humjins pasand? Pasand suggests adoration for something whereas parast usually equates to the English suffix of -ist. For sexist people are more often than not, not homosexuals they are just supremacists..
I may be wrong if so some argumentation would help.

No, BP. SaaHib is right, the word is ہم جنس پرست ham-jins-parast and it is the best, neutral and semantically productive, applicable to both sexes term.

 

[Sheikh_14]

so than pasand may suggest a sexist. In other words its the other way round.

 

[Sheikh_14]

Marrish sahib could you write down the roman urdu equivalent of the following and if you deem at all appropriate write in a formal language if required what it precisely means.

 

[marrish]

so than pasand may suggest a sexist. In other words its the other way round.

Yes it may be other way round but I am not sure about -pasand for ''sexist''. Why not open a new thread for this word?

 

[Sheikh_14]

Marrish sahib could you write down the roman urdu equivalent of the following and if you deem at all appropriate write in a formal language if required what it precisely means.

چپٹی کھیلنا

 

[Sheikh_14]

It's just a khyaal (thought) and yes not a bad idea. It came to mind since pasand is usually added to those who are obsessed with something i.e. shidat-pasand

 

[Faylasoof]

Many good suggestions above and BP SaaHib has covered it well to indicate how the component parts are used.

I agree that ham-jins can be quite general in meaning but in the correct context we do use it to mean a homosexual / gay person.

ہم جنس ham-jins = لُوطی luuTii = homosexual --- with لُوطی luuTii as a rather impolite form!
ہم جنسیت ham-jinsiyat = لواطت liwaaTat = homosexuality

 

[Qureshpor]

I don't know what other friends think about this but in Urdu literature, especially Ghazal poetry, one occasionally comes across the concept of "amrad-parastii" which is male homosexuality.

 

[Shahaalam]

Personally I believe that using parasti is derogatory. As if it's a cult. We're not worshipping the same sex. We prefer the same sex.

 

[iskander e azam]

Personally I believe that using parasti is derogatory. As if it's a cult. We're not worshipping the same sex. We prefer the same sex.

Salaam Shahaalam,

Welcome to the forum.

Here is what Platts has to say about parast and parasti in his magnum opus.

Only two positive instances of its use.

Best wishes,

Alex

 

[iskander e azam]

This doesn't mean 'lesbianism' I'm afraid to say but a sexual act between women. Moreover it is a verb and is very vulgar – which disqualifies it as a neutral term for a homosexual female or male.

Marrish,

Thanks for this correction.

Best wishes,

Alex

 

[PersoLatin]

In Persian the word for homosexual is هم جنس گرا/ham jens garâ, where garâ is derived from گراییدن/garâŷdan- to have tendencies/be inclined/amenable to.

هم ‏جنس ‏باز/ham jens bâz was also used but it seems it has been dropped.

 

[fdb]

ہم جنس ham-jins = لُوطی luuTii = homosexual --- with لُوطی luuTii as a rather impolite form!
ہم جنسیت ham-jinsiyat = لواطت liwaaTat = homosexuality

To go back to the very beginning of this thread: ham-jins means “same-sex”, not “outside of gender”. The Arabic lūṭī means “like the people of the city of Lot/Lūṭ”, i.e. Sodom. The abstract liwāṭ is a technical term in Islamic law, exactly like English etc. “sodomy”, understood to mean “anal intercourse”.

 

[Shahaalam]

هم ‏جنس ‏باز/ham jens bâz was also used but it seems it has been dropped.

Hamjinsbāz is still used in Afghan Persian. I found a few instances when I searched on YouTube once.

 

[Jashn]

I'm not sure how common it is, but I've noticed a lot of people I know who come from Bombay will say someone is 'meetha'/sweet to refer to the person as a homosexual. Seems to be a polite code? I've only ever heard it used to describe a man, I'm not sure if there's a similar term used for ladies.

 

[Shahaalam]

I'm not sure how common it is, but I've noticed a lot of people I know who come from Bombay will say someone is 'meetha'/sweet to refer to the person as a homosexual. Seems to be a polite code? I've only ever heard it used to describe a man, I'm not sure if there's a similar term used for ladies.

It might seem polite, but it is a derogatory word. It's used in other areas as well. It's like calling them "fairy" in English.

 

[Qureshpor]

To go back to the very beginning of this thread: ham-jins means “same-sex”, not “outside of gender”. The Arabic lūṭī means “like the people of the city of Lot/Lūṭ”, i.e. Sodom. The abstract liwāṭ is a technical term in Islamic law, exactly like English etc. “sodomy”, understood to mean “anal intercourse”.

fdb, you are absolutely right about the literal meaning of "ham-jins". However in Urdu ہم جنس پسندی or ہم جنس پرستی is often shortened to just ہم جنسی all implying homosexuality in the right context.

 

[PersoLatin]

جنس پسندی or ہم جنس پرستی is often shortened to just ہم جنسی all implying homosexuality in the right context.

Hi Qureshpor, nether of the full versions above reflect the reality of homosexually, they are are judgemental, پسندی implies a choice and پرستی & بازی are even less appropriate.

گرایی may not be the best choice but it is less judgemental. هم جنسی in fact is not a bad choice for ‘homosexuality but what is a ‘homosexual’ then?

Of course what I said is based on the literal meaning of these words in mainstream Persian.

 

[Qureshpor]

Hi Qureshpor, nether of the full versions above reflect the reality of homosexually, they are are judgemental, پسندی implies a choice and پرستی & بازی are even less appropriate.

گرایی may not be the best choice but it is less judgemental.

Of course what I said is based on the literal meaning of these words in mainstream Persian.

PersoLatin, that's how they are used in Urdu, whether right or wrong and Persian is not listed in the thread title.

 

[PersoLatin]

I respect your view. Persian itself has many borrowed Arabic words that are used not quite the same way as they are used in Arabic, However that happened over a 12 century period, and to words that are from a completely unrelated language. Urdu is indo-Iranian so is this forum, and importantly these words are & have been changing & evolving in all modern languages and Urdu is no exception.

 

[iskander e azam]

Shahaalam SaaHib,

Would you be willing or able to provide a term that you deem appropriate to describe those who are ordinarily called ہم جنس پسند/پرست?

Best wishes,

Alex

 

[Shahaalam]

Shahaalam SaaHib,

Would you be willing or able to provide a term that you deem appropriate to describe those who are ordinarily called ہم جنس پسند/پرست?

Best wishes,

Alex

I am of the belief that the term "Hamjinspasand" would be a good word, but now I'm starting to think that PersoLatin has a point when he says "garā" might seem more appropriate. However, modern Urdu doesn't tend to borrow directly from Iranian Persian and I believe that to maintain a distinction of thought, we need to find a different term.

پسندی implies a choice

Another thing I'd like to comment on is that "pasandī" doesn't imply a choice. You can't always decide your preferences. It's not a "cārā" as we'd call it in Urdu. So, Hamjinspasand is still the word I'm leaning towards.

 

[Haseeb-14]

I'm not sure about Hindi, but Urdu is a very Islamic-oriented language As such, no polite words quite exist for 'homosexual', simply derogatory terms.

 

[PersoLatin]

Another thing I'd like to comment on is that "pasandī" doesn't imply a choice.

For what it’s worrh, pasandidan in Persian primarily means ‘to choose’ things one likes, e.g. شاه‌پسند etc,

 

[Shahaalam]

For what it’s worrh, pasandidan in Persian primarily means ‘to choose’ things one likes, e.g. شاه‌پسند etc,

But in Urdu, pasand is preference or liking.

 

[PersoLatin]

[

But in Urdu, pasand is preference or liking.

Thank you ’prefer’ is exactly what it is, and you normally use pasand/prefer when you express your liking for one thing over another.

So with pasand/prefer, choice is involved.

 

[Shahaalam]

[
Thank you ’prefer’ is exactly what it is, and you normally use pasand/prefer when you express your liking for one thing over another.

So with pasand/prefer, choice is involved.

Preference≠choice. It's fairly common to refer to sexual orientation as sexual preference. In Hindustani, pasand is used not just for showing preference of one thing over the other, but also simply a liking for one thing where Persian might use dōst dāštan or xuš dāštan.
مجھے وہ لڑکا پسند ہی۔
Mujhe vo laṛkā pasand hai.
I like that boy.