Urdu / Hindi : hua hua hai

[francois_auffret]

Salam, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Hello!!!

I found it weird, because this use of the verb to be, hona, in Urdu / Hindi is quite idiomatic. I've never seen in books but only heard it or read it in letters / correspondance...

Examples:

voh biimaar huaa huaa hai

tumhaarii kitaabeN KHaraab huii huii haiN...

I've never seen this written in grammar though... I think it has almost taken the place of KHaraab huii haiN, etc...

Moreover, I've also heard it used with hota too, as in

aisaa hotaa hotaa hai ,

How would you define this use, the nuance it brings? Does it exist in Hindi too?????

Thanks for your help!

 

[panjabigator]

I am too exhausted to come up with a good response, so I'll refer you to Ruth Laila Schmidt's Urdu: An Essential grammar, which is quite handy to have around.

I too am very interested in this question and I have wondered about it myself too. I think it follows along the lines of being a participle, such as with /kiyaa huaa/ aur /dekhaa huaa/, but I'm not too sure.

The /hotaa hotaa/ seems to be referring to the action in progress. I think it's also participial.

Hope to have helped. I'll consult some books tomorrow. Phir gall karaa.nge!

 

[francois_auffret]

I'll refer you to Ruth Laila Schmidt's Urdu: An Essential grammar, which is quite handy to have around.

I too am very interested in this question and I have wondered about it myself too. I think it follows along the lines of being a participle, such as with /kiyaa huaa/ aur /dekhaa huaa/, but I'm not too sure.

The /hotaa hotaa/ seems to be referring to the action in progress. I think it's also participial.

As you mention it, it must have been made along the lines of kiyaa huaa etc...

I really feel that now in the spoken language, it will be very rare to say : woh KHaraab huaa hai and woh KHaraab huaa huaa hai will spontaneously be preferred instead.

Another form using this participle which is not taught by the grammars (I am not sure here...) is woh mujhe mil gayaa huaa hai... with the double use of mil jaanaa and the participle huaa...

The form hotaa hotaa hai I mentioned, I've heard it a few times... It just seemed to be insistance to me with no other change of meaning... along the lines of huaa huaa hai. The use of the first two above forms is quite clear to me, I'm only wondering if :

1- other Indian languages have them?
2- they are mentioned in any grammar?

The last one - hotaa hotaa - is a bit more mysterious and if you have heard it or can explain it to me...

I thank you in advance!

 

[panjabigator]

I am beginning to suspect that this <huaa huaa> trend is a Panjabicism. Never heard it Lucknow.

 

[Faylasoof]

We’ve had this before. Discussed in detail here.

 

[BP.]

khush aamadeed and welcome back Faylasoof!

 

[Faylasoof]

baRee nawaazish! ta'teel par thaa!

 

[panjabigator]

I just wanted to send an update about the <huā huā> point: I was reading an early 20th Panjabi novel the other day and I encountered this usage, so perhaps it's OK in Panjabi lit, or at least early Panjabi lit.

 

[Qureshpor]

Salam, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal, Hello!!!

I found it weird, because this use of the verb to be, hona, in Urdu / Hindi is quite idiomatic. I've never seen in books but only heard it or read it in letters / correspondance...

Examples:

voh biimaar huaa huaa hai

tumhaarii kitaabeN KHaraab huii huii haiN...

I've never seen this written in grammar though... I think it has almost taken the place of KHaraab huii haiN, etc...

Moreover, I've also heard it used with hota too, as in

aisaa hotaa hotaa hai ,

How would you define this use, the nuance it brings? Does it exist in Hindi too?????

Thanks for your help!

As I have said in another thread, I have most certainly come across this usage both in Urdu and Punjabi. I have to confess that it has not been easy to put forward a plausible explanation. I shall use this thread to put my point of view across because the example given here by francois_auffret are better.

pahle vuh Thiik thaa ab vuh biimaar hai: He was well before (but) now he is ill.

ya'nii vuh biimaar ho gayaa hai: That is to say he has become ill.

is vaqt vuh kis Haalat meN hai?: What sort of state is he in now?

is vaqt vuh biimaar hu'aa hu'aa hai:

At this period in time he is in a state of having become ill.

Similarly,

tumhaarii kitaabeN Kharaab haiN: Your books are spoiled.

tumhaarii kitaabeN Kharaab ho ga'ii haiN:

Your books have become spoiled.

tumhaarii kitaabeN Kharaab hu'ii hu'ii haiN:

Your books are in a state of having become spoiled.

aisaa hotaa hai: Such like happens. (This kind of thing happens)

aisaa hotaa hotaa hai: Such like happens as a rule.

Your views?

 

[Faylasoof]

....
pahle vuh Thiik thaa ab vuh biimaar hai: He was well before (but) now he is ill.

ya'nii vuh biimaar ho gayaa hai: That is to say he has become ill.

is vaqt vuh kis Haalat meN hai?: What sort of state is he in now?

is vaqt vuh biimaar hu'aa hu'aa hai:

At this period in time he is in a state of having become ill.

Similarly,

tumhaarii kitaabeN Kharaab haiN: Your books are spoiled.

tumhaarii kitaabeN Kharaab ho ga'ii haiN:

Your books have become spoiled.

tumhaarii kitaabeN Kharaab hu'ii hu'ii haiN:

Your books are in a state of having become spoiled.

aisaa hotaa hai: Such like happens. (This kind of thing happens)

aisaa hotaa hotaa hai: Such like happens as a rule.

Your views?

Apart from having to repeat yet again that we did this here, the examples above that are coloured in red are alien in our speech!

... and to say: The likes such as this / these (do) happen as a rule

We would put it as: aysaa hotaa hii rahtaa hai

 

[Qureshpor]

Apart from having to repeat yet again that we did this here, the examples above that are coloured in red are alien in our speech!

... and to say: The likes such as this / these (do) happen as a rule

We would put it as: aysaa hotaa hii rahtaa hai

I decided to continue with this thread because the examples provided seemed better for my purposes. There has been no suggestion by anyone that this "hu'aa hu'aa" business is grammatically correct Urdu. This is merely an exercise in trying to determine the significance of this development. I think everybody would be aware of the accepted Urdu alternatives.

 

[Faylasoof]

I decided to continue with this thread because the examples provided seemed better for my purposes. There has been no suggestion by anyone that this "hu'aa hu'aa" business is grammatically correct Urdu. This is merely an exercise in trying to determine the significance of this development. I think everybody would be aware of the accepted Urdu alternatives.

Sure! I just thought I'd provide at least one example of how we would say it!

 

[Qureshpor]

Further to my last!

1) paanii ThaNDaa thaa The water was cold.

2) paanii garm kiyaa gayaa The water was heated.

3) paanii garm ho gayaa The water became hot.

4) paanii garm hai The water is hot.

If we were asked to describe the condition/state of the water in 1-4, we would offer the following descriptions.

1) ThaNDaa paanii

2) garm kiyaa gayaa hu'aa paanii

3) garm ho gayaa hu'aa paanii

4) garm paanii

Now, please take a look at the sentence below.

jab maiN biimaar hu'aa to mujh meN uTh kar baiThne kii taaqat bhii nahiiN thii.

When I became ill, I did not even have the energy to get up and sit down.

Here "hu'aa" can be replaced by 'ho gayaa" because both "hu'aa" and "ho gayaa" mean "became".

Therefore, in 3) garm ho gayaa hu'aa paanii is equivalent to
garm hu'aa hu'aa paanii

Consequently, "biimaar ho gayaa huaa aadamii" is the same as
"biimaar hu'aa hu'aa aadamii".

"Kharaab ho ga'ii hu'iiN kitaabeN" is the same as
"Kharaab hu'ii hu'iiN kitaabeN".

This therefore explains the existence of sentences like..

vuh aadamii biimaar hu'aa hu'aa hai
tumhaarii kitaabeN Kharaab hu'ii hu'ii haiN

I shall have to think a little more about the "hotaa hotaa" construction

 

[Qureshpor]

Proceeding with this saga..

The explanation is of course equally applicable to past participles used adjectively.

1) bachchah jaagaa hu'aa thaa. The child was awake.

2) bachchah sulaayaa gayaa. The child was put to sleep.

3) bachchah so gayaa. The child went to sleep/fell asleep.

[bachchah "soyaa hu'aa ho gayaa"]

4) bachchah soyaa hu'aa hai. The child is asleep.

And from these we get the 'state" of the child.

1) jaagaa hu'aa bachchah

2) sulaaya gayaa hu'aa bachchah

3) so gayaa hu'aa bachchah=soyaa hu'aa hu'aa bachchah

4) soyaa hu'aa hu'aa bachchah

This kind of "hu'aa hu'aa" construction is also to be found in old(er) Persian.

kas chih me-daanad? shaayad az pesh iin taariiKh raa mu'ayyan kardah buudah ast. (TaariiKh-i-Baihaqii)

kaun jaane? shaayad pahle se us ne is taariiKh ko mu'ayyan kiyaa hu'aa (hu'aa) hai.
.............................................................................................

Now let's talk about "hotaa hotaa".

1) bachpan kii yaadoN meN se ek yih bhii hai kih hamaare siHn meN beriyoN ke peRoN par bahut se tote aayaa karte the.

For tote aayaa karte the , the Punjabi equivalent would be "tote aa'onde honde saNR" which in Urdu translates to tote aate hote the.

2) ek zamaanah vuh bhii thaa jab fulaaN adaa-kaar nihaayat maqbuul hu'aa kartaa thaa. lekin ab use ko'ii puuchhtaa tak nahiiN!

In Punjabi, the relevant part would be, "maqbuul hondaa hondaa sii", which in Urdu translates to, maqbuul hotaa hotaa thaa!

I hope I have not bored everyone to tears. Whilst I am fully aware that "hu'aa hu'aa" and "hotaa hotaa" constructions are most emphatically wrong, this has been an attempt to explain the logic behind their constructions.

In summary, "hu'aa hu'aa" denotes the state of something while "hotaa hotaa" depicts habit.

 

[UrduMedium]

^ I think there are cases when hu'aa hu'aa does happen in speech.

Example: voh to Ghusse se paagal hu'e hu'e the. [he was acting crazy due to anger]

However, interesting thing to note is that frequently the second "hu'aa/hu'e" is not fully pronounced, in everyday speech but said as "vaa/ve". I suppose this is to ease the delivery and smooth the awkwardness of a repeated hu'aa/hu'e/hu'ii.

So the example above becomes: voh to Ghusse se paagal hu'e ve the

Obviously in written speech it has to be hu'aa/hu'e, not vaa/ve.

 

[JaiHind]

My reply to the original question in the thread:

It is not common in Hindi. "huaa huaa" double usage is very uncommon and mostly not used. I am not sure but if someone said "hua..." and then with a pause, may be because of coughing etc, restarted his statement with "hua" again, it may be written like "hua... hua...".

 

[UrduMedium]

Just came across a good example of "hu'ii hu'ii". Youtube "Dunya News-14-09-2012-KYUN?" fast forward to 09:22.

"... aur hamare aur un ke darmiaan kuchh kashmakash ki suurat bhii paidaa hu'ii hu'ii hai" (referring to the Muslims and the Western World in the context of current politics).

 

[Qureshpor]

Just came across a good example of "hu'ii hu'ii". Youtube "Dunya News-14-09-2012-KYUN?" fast forward to 09:22.

"... aur hamare aur un ke darmiaan kuchh kashmakash ki suurat bhii paidaa hu'ii hu'ii hai" (referring to the Muslims and the Western World in the context of current politics).

Thank you, UM SaaHib. If the speaker had said..

"..aur hamaare aur un ke darmiyaan kuchh kashmakash kii suurat bhii paidaa hu'ii hai", surely this has quite a different connotation to "hu'ii hu'ii hai". I am of the view, as I have tried to demonstrate in the earlier posts that this repetition provides the "state" in which the object/person finds it/himself.