Urdu/Hindi: huwa chaahta hai ہوا چاہتا ہے

Abu Talha

Senior Member
Urdu
Hello,

I was wondering what exactly this conjugation/tense means. I've only ever heard it on TV:

"maghrib ka waqt huwa chaahta hai." for "It's time for maghrib."
Personally, I would say "maghrib ka waqt ho gaya hai" or "hone laga hai" or "hone wala hai" but I was wondering what, if any, specific meaning "hua chaahta hai" had.

It seems like it means "maghrib ka waqt hona chaahta hai"?

Also, is there other usage for this besides the one mentioned?

Thanks!
 
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  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Abu Talha SaaHib. Here the verb "chaahnaa" is being used in the sense "about to be". It does appear somewhat archaic but I like it, perhaps because I am somewhat "archaic"!

    As far as I know, it appears almost exclusively in the third person although there is no reason why it should not be used with other persons. I have heard it on radio on regular basis, as the seconds are ticking away to the hour, "ab baarah baje hu'aa chaahte haiN. BBC London se xabreN suniye".

    Instead of translating it as "It is about to be twelve o'clock", it might be better to think of it as "It is almost 12".

    jaate jaate (and in the first person).....aur aap bhii kyaa yaad kareN ge!

    ko'ii dam kaa mahmaaN huuN ai ahl-i-maHfil
    chiraaGh-i-saHar huuN, bujhaa chaahtaa huuN

    Iqbal
     
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    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    This expression "maghrib kaa waqt huwaa chaahtaa hai" is just another and older way of saying "maghrib kaa waqt huwaa jaataa hai" = maghrib kaa waqt hone waalaa hai" = It's almost susnet!
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Whilst searching for a particular couplet, I came across this by an unknown poet.

    dil us but pih shaidaa hu'aa chaahtaa hai
    xudaa jaane ab kyaa hu'aa chaahtaa hai

    Would Urdu speakers agree that this "hu'aa chaahtaa hai" form is breathing its last or would you say it is alive and well? An inquiry addressed to our Hindi speaking friends. Does this form exist in spoken or written Hindi at all and if yes, is it common or rare?
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    Qureshpor said:
    Would Urdu speakers agree that this "hu'aa chaahtaa hai" form is breathing its last or would you say it is alive and well?
    If you consider usage in Urdu media (especially dramas), it seems to still be "alive and well"...along with aayaa (hii) chaahtaa hai.
     

    Chhaatr

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    An inquiry addressed to our Hindi speaking friends. Does this form exist in spoken or written Hindi at all and if yes, is it common or rare?
    I have heard huaa jaataa hai not chaahtaa hai. In my limited exposure to written Hindi too I haven't come across this.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Thank you Chhaatr SaaHib for the information.

    If you consider usage in Urdu media (especially dramas), it seems to still be "alive and well"...along with aayaa (hii) chaahtaa hai.
    Thank you, Alfraaz SaaHib. "hu'aa chaahtaa hai" and "aayaa chaahtaa hai" etc are one and the same thing, grammatically speaking. Another example was given in # post 2, "bujhaa chaahtaa huuN".
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    ^ Yes. Since you have now gotten at least two answers: What are your opinions and experiences regarding the usage of such constructions?
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Yes, I have had two responses. Chhaatr SaaHib, as a Hindi speaker, is not familiar with this tense form and he has clarified his position quite clearly. From what you and Abu Talha SaaHib, as Urdu speakers, have said is that it exists only in media. And I would count TV plays as media too.

    My own (limited) experience is that I have heard it spoken on radio and have seen it in written form. I have a question to Urdu speakers who are familiar with Farsi. I am aware the verb "xvaastan" is equivalent to "chaahnaa". However, in Farsi too, this verb is used (perhaps now rarely) to imply an action that is just about to happen. I wonder if the Urdu usage is a remnant of the Farsi usage. Perhaps Faylasoof and marrish SaaHibaan would be kind enough to comment on this line of thinking. This thread could be opened for Farsi too.
     
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    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yes, I have had two responses. Chhaatr SaaHib, as a Hindi speaker, is not familiar with this tense form and he has clarified his position quite clearly. From what you and Abu Talha SaaHib, as Urdu speakers, have said is that it exists only in media. And I would count TV plays as media too.

    My own (limited) experience is that I have heard it spoken on radio and have seen it in written form. I have a question to Urdu speakers who are familiar with Farsi. I am aware the verb "xvaastan" is equivalent to "chaahnaa". However, in Farsi too, this verb is used (perhaps now rarely) to imply an action that is just about to happen. I wonder if the Urdu usage is a remnant of the Farsi usage. Perhaps Faylasoof and marrish SaaHibaan would be kind enough to comment on this line of thinking. This thread could be opened for Farsi too.
    janaab QP SaaHib, yeh to maiN baalaa 3arDh kar chukaa huuN:
    This expression "maghrib kaa waqt huwaa chaahtaa hai" is just another and older way of saying "maghrib kaa waqt huwaa jaataa hai" = maghrib kaa waqt hone waalaa hai" = It's almost susnet!
    ... and here "older" doesn't mean no longer used.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    My experience is that its usage is there for sure albeit quite limited to some expressions and of course in a sort of exalted language usage. I would not be tempted to say *laRaa'ii hu'aa chaahtii hae*, that is to say, I would not use this tense for mundane things.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    My experience is that its usage is there for sure albeit quite limited to some expressions and of course in a sort of exalted language usage. I would not be tempted to say *laRaa'ii hu'aa chaahtii hae*, that is to say, I would not use this tense for mundane things.
    marrish SaaHib, is this possible at all: laRaa'ii hu'aa chaahtii hae ?
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    ^ If you ask I think I am in troubles! I made it on the spot so I don't really know, it looks strange for sure, as I said, but I think you are hinting at the grammar part of it.
     

    Dib

    Senior Member
    Bengali (India)
    I am aware the verb "xvaastan" is equivalent to "chaahnaa". However, in Farsi too, this verb is used (perhaps now rarely) to imply an action that is just about to happen.

    Very interesting observation. The Persian construction is also roughly present tense of xvaastan + past tense of the main verb. Maybe a syntactic calque from Persian. Wonderful! :)
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    My presumption is that you are right, janaab-e-vaalaa but to prove one wrong or right hamaaraa isnaad dihii kaa silsilah bahut kaam aataa! (See, behold, I'm also good at Urdenglishing!)
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    My presumption is that you are right, janaab-e-vaalaa but to prove one wrong or right hamaaraa isnaad dihii kaa silsilah bahut kaam aataa! (See, behold, I'm also good at Urdenglishing!)
    vuh jaayaa chaahtaa hai. / He is about to go.

    vuh maraa chaahtii hai. / She is about to die.

    isnaad (Platts)

    bas abhii chhuTii hu'aa chaahtii hai /The bus is just about to depart.

    isnaad (Krishan Chandar)
     

    Chhaatr

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    QP SaaHib I'm hazarding a comment here only because of "Urdu/Hindi" in the subject line.

    From a Hindi point of view "bus chhuTii huaa chaahtaa hai" sounds jarring. I do understand that the discussion here is more on literary lines because this usage is hardly present in day to day spoken Hindi, so feel free to ignore this tabsirah.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ No, you are not wrong. I had mistyped it but did correct it immediately.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    QP SaaHib I'm hazarding a comment here only because of "Urdu/Hindi" in the subject line.

    From a Hindi point of view "bus chhuTii huaa chaahtaa hai" sounds jarring. I do understand that the discussion here is more on literary lines because this usage is hardly present in day to day spoken Hindi, so feel free to ignore this tabsirah.
    For me too, an Urduphone, this just doesn't sound right! IMHO the following (no.1) sounds better if one want to use this expression:

    1.bus chhuTii huwii chaahtii hai = 2. bus chhuuTii jaatii hai = 3. the bus is about to depart = 4. bus jaane waalii hae

    Nos. 2 and 4 are very commonly used.

    No.1 according to us and our isnaad!
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    vuh jaayaa chaahtaa hai. / He is about to go.

    vuh maraa chaahtii hai. / She is about to die.

    isnaad (Platts)

    bas abhii chhuTii hu'aa chaahtii hai /The bus is just about to depart.

    isnaad (Krishan Chandar)
    Thank you for researching the matter and sharing isnaad with all of us. bas (bus) abhii chhuTii hu'aa chaahtii hae is precisely how I'd say it intuitively and it is some sort of thing like in Fatimah dihlii jaayaa kartii hae.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    For me too, an Urduphone, this just doesn't sound right! IMHO the following (no.1) sounds better if one want to use this expression:

    1.bus chhuTii huwii chaahtii hai = 2. bus chhuuTii jaatii hai = 3. the bus is about to depart = 4. bus jaane waalii hae

    Nos. 2 and 4 are very commonly used.

    No.1 according to us and our isnaad!
    With due respect Faylasoof SaaHib, I believe you are wrong when you suggest that marrish SaaHib's sentence ought to be "laRaa'ii hu'ii chaahtii hai". All the examples that I have managed to find to date suggest that the past tense verb does not change whether the subject is masculine or feminine.

    Here are a few examples from the net.

    کرم اے صرصرِ امیدِ نشاط
    عشق کی آگ بجھا چاہتی ہے

    (متفرق اشعار (ناصر کاظمی

    کیا حکومت گرا چاہتی ہے ؟

    مصر میں تبدیلی آیا چاہتی ہے

    قیامت کی گھڑی بس آیا ہی چاہتی ہے

    آپ نے فرمایا میرے خیال میں اُن پر اب موت آیا ہی چاہتی پے۔

    صورتحال بھی تبدیل ہؤا چاہتی ہے

    Today, I came across this example from کنزالایمان , an Urdu translation of the Qur'an by اعلیٰ حضرت رضا احمد بریلوی

    تو بیشک انہوں نے حق کو جھٹلایا جب ان کے پاس آیا، تو اب انہیں
    خبر ہوا چاہتی ہے اس چیز کی جس پر ہنس رہے تھے

    Here is a quote from McGregor's Hindi Grammar (my emphasis)

    Hindi: Outline of Hindi Grammar. R.S. McGregor (3rd edition, revised and enlarged) OUP

    Pages 151-152

    "4. With chaahnaa

    Collocations of perfective participles showing invariable final -aa with following forms of the verb chaahnaa express the idea that a given action is about to occur. There are other, more common ways of expressing this idea, and these collocations are much less frequent than any of the above three types.

    do bajaa chaahte haiN, It is about to strile two, two is about to strike.

    maiN baahar jaayaa chaahtaa huuN, I'am about to go out.
     
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    Chhaatr

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Noticed the usage "hu'aa chaahtii hai" for the first time.

    Those interested can type "Tahir Faraz Dubai Mushaira 2013" in YouTube and listen at 9:55/9:58.

    Tahir Faraz is an Urdu poet from Rampur, UP.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ shukriyah Chhaatr SaaHib. These are the words of the poet..

    جو روایتی غزل ہے جو اب دھیرے دھیرے میں سمجھتا ہوں ہمارے مشاعرے کے سٹیج سے رُخصت ہو چکی ہے یا ہؤا چاہتی ہے۔۔۔
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    With due respect Faylasoof SaaHib, I believe you are wrong when you suggest that marrish SaaHib's sentence ought to be "laRaa'ii hu'ii chaahtii hai". All the examples that I have managed to find to date suggest that the past tense verb does not change whether the subject is masculine or feminine.
    .....
    With all due respect QP SaaHib, you are wrong too! Please understand that although by and large the way we write Urdu (and everyday Hindi) is the way we speak but variants do exist.

    This expression though not dead is uncommon and has been for a long time. Just spoke to an octogenarian urduudaan from Lucknow. He has heard both forms (!) we are discussing but doesn’t remember anyone using it around him in recent times in speech. Variant forms are more likely to occur if something fails the test of daily speech. Besides, what one has heard in his / her native speech (rare or not so rare) is also as good a sanad as what one might cite from books (or any written form) because not everyone all the time speaks like a book!

    Writers (including screen writers) and poets might be trying to keep it going but ....

    جناب والا، حضرت سلامت، یہ محاورہ خاك و خوں میں غلطاں، حالت احتضار میں ہے

    janaab-e-waalaa, HaDhrat salaamat, yeh muHaawarah xaak-o-xuuN meN GhalTaan, Haalat e aHtiDhaar meN hai !
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Sure, Faylasoof SaaHib, there are variants and one's speech is also an isnaad. This isnaad is usually captured by the best speakers of the language, as we have often discussed and agreed in the past. Perhaps, you would be kind enough to cite an example of your variety used by any of the asaatizah, either from the Delhi school or the Lucknow School. What I am looking for is, to take Tahir Faraz Rampuri's quote as an example...something in the pattern of..

    ...ruxsat (f) hu'ii chaahtii hai.

    Several examples have been provided which show that the main verb is not gender dependent. There should not be any doubt in the usage of Urdu language of the two individuals quoted, who hail from Bareilly and Rampur respectively.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I would also like to request for anything to be quoted for my speech and experience has only been

    fem. noun + hu'aa (or any other verb) + chaahtii

    and I am quite reassured by all the examples and descriptions provided so far that my having used it so with ''laRaa'ii'' was quite sound. It would be fine for me to accept ''hu'ii'' but I can't help I've never heard such formation before.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    I would also like to request for anything to be quoted for my speech and experience has only been

    fem. noun + hu'aa (or any other verb) + chaahtii

    and I am quite reassured by all the examples and descriptions provided so far that my having used it so with ''laRaa'ii'' was quite sound. It would be fine for me to accept ''hu'ii'' but I can't help I've never heard such formation before.
    Thank you! BTW, I know where you are from. That might have something to do with it!
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I found the following example from the pen of a certain معصوم مرادآبادی when he is talking about a saHaafii (a journalist) named Parvaanah Ridolvii. It was written in April 2013.

    اس بحران کی وجہ آج کے اردو اخباروں پر ہندی صحافت کی نہایت بے میل ترکیبوں اور الفا ظ کی اجارہ داری ہوا چاہتی ہے۔ اگر اس در اندازی کو نہ روکا گیا تو جلد ہی شمالی ہندوستان کی اردو صحافت ’بے زبان‘ ہوجائے گی۔

    http://parwanaehind.blogspot.co.uk/2...post_6799.ht

    I shall transcribe this sentence in a later post.

    Edit:

    Here is the transliteration.

    is buHraan kii vajh aaj ke Urdu axbaaroN par Hindi saHaafat kii nihaayat be-mel tarkiiboN aur alfaaz kii ijaarah-daarii hu'aa chaahtii hai. agar is dar-andaazii ko nah rokaa gayaa to jald hii shamaalii Hindustaan kii Urdu saHaafat "be-zabaan" ho jaa;e gii.

    buHraan/crisis
    saHaafat/journalism
    be-mel/ ill-fitting/matching
    tarkiib/construction
    ijaarah-daarii/monopoly
    dar-andaazii/intrusion
     
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    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    I would also like to request for anything to be quoted for my speech and experience has only been

    fem. noun + hu'aa (or any other verb) + chaahtii

    and I am quite reassured by all the examples and descriptions provided so far that my having used it so with ''laRaa'ii'' was quite sound. It would be fine for me to accept ''hu'ii'' but I can't help I've never heard such formation before.

    Could it be that the "hu'ā" is invariably singular and masculine like with the "kiyā kartā thā" construction?

    Very interesting observation. The Persian construction is also roughly present tense of xvaastan + past tense of the main verb. Maybe a syntactic calque from Persian. Wonderful! :)

    Dib jī, could you give a Persian example?
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Could it be that the "hu'ā" is invariably singular and masculine like with the "kiyā kartā thā" construction?
    Yes, as far as I am concerned it is so and I suggested it before:
    bas (bus) abhii chhuTii hu'aa chaahtii hae is precisely how I'd say it intuitively and it is some sort of thing like in Fatimah dihlii jaayaa kartii hae.
    Besides, all the written examples above point out to it - authors come from different places and periods.
     

    Dib

    Senior Member
    Bengali (India)
    Dib jī, could you give a Persian example?

    Sorry for a long delay. I had rather limited internet access for a while. Example would be:
    1. I shall go = man x(v)aaham raft.
    2. He shall go = u x(v)aahad raft. etc.

    Grammatically: raft is the past tense, always in 3rd person singular in this construction.
    x(v)aah- = the present stem of x(v)aastan.
    -am, -ad, etc. = present tense personal endings.
    So, x(v)aahad, etc. are conjugated present tense forms except for the (durative/imprefective) prefix mi- that is obligatory in modern Persian. So, the proper present tense forms would have been: mi-x(v)aahad, etc. Was the mi- prefix optional in early new Persian? I have a feeling, I read something to that effect at some point, but I can't really vouch for it any more, nor could I verify it at present. It would be nice if someone could answer this definitively.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Dib SaaHib, I've started a separate thread especially to have pg jii's question answered.
     

    Sheikh_14

    Senior Member
    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    You could say laRaa'ii kaa waqt hu'aa jaataa/chaahtaa hai if an actual boxing or wrestling fight was about to go down. Btw I still don't understand why chaahnaa here was once used in lieu of jaanaa? Was it a mere corruption or bigaaR or did chaahnaa i.e. to long for something once have another denotation too which faded away over time? Nowadays you're more likely to hear hu'aa jaataa hai, to hu'aa chaahtaa hai.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Don't know about "hu'aa jaataa hai" being the same as "hu'aa chaahtaa hai".

    "huaa jaataa hai" would imply "ho rahaa hai" or "hotaa jaa rahaa hai" as in

    گمرہی کا مری سامان ہوا جاتا ہے
    راستہ زیست کا آسان ہوا جاتا ہے

    3baid-ur-raHmaan

    داغؔ خاموش نہ لگ جائے نظر
    شعر دیوان ہوا جاتا ہے

    daaGh dihlavii

    "hu'aa chaahtaa hai" has never been "hu'aa jaataa hai" and the former is not a "bigRii shakl" of the latter.
     
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    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    ( مشغلہ ہے یہ جنابِ داغ کا ❘ ہو رہا ہے آج کل دیوان صاف (داغ دہلوی
    مَش: غَ۔ لَہ: ہَے: ❘ یِہ: جَ۔ نا: بے: ❘ دا: غ۔ کا: ۔۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔۔ ہو: ر۔ ہا: ہے: ❘ آ: ج۔ کل: دی: ❘ وا: نْ۔ صا: فْ ۔​
    mash·Gha·lah· haeyih· ja·naa·b-édaa·Gh· kaa· ------ ho· ra·haa· haeaa·j· kal· dii· ❘ vaa·n· saa·f.
    (daaGh dihlavii)
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I heard it on radio in Hindi. I can see there are many instances of this construction (hu'aa chaahtaa hai and hu'aa chaahtii hai) on the Net in Devanagari, including book results. Then, a phrase like *"hu'ii chaahtii hai" can also be found but then it's often something like vichaaroN ko spaShT kartii huii chaahtii hai ki... so it's not relevant. Two relevant I found are "kuTiyaa ab puurii huii chaahtii hai", presumably from a Gandhi letter from Sampūrṇa Gāndhī Vāṅmaya, Volume 75, Mahatma Gandhi, Prakāśana Vibhāga, Sūcanā aura Prasāraṇa Mantrālaya, Bhārata Sarakāra; and "tahkiikaat abhii huii chaahtii hai" in a fiction book by a Rajkumar Rakesh Bhiraṭī tathā anya kahāniyām̐". I believe it is plainly wrong.
     

    Sheikh_14

    Senior Member
    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    For me too, an Urduphone, this just doesn't sound right! IMHO the following (no.1) sounds better if one want to use this expression:

    1.bus chhuTii huwii chaahtii hai = 2. bus chhuuTii jaatii hai = 3. the bus is about to depart = 4. bus jaane waalii hae


    Nos. 2 and 4 are very commonly used.

    No.1 according to us and our isnaad!

    So would the following make sense and be the formal/literary way of saying "bus chhuuTne waalii hai/bus chhuuT jaa'e gii":

    "Bus chhuuTii (hu'ii) jaa'e gii"?

    How about a formal twist for I am about to depart:

    Isii taraH maiN yahaaN se rawaana/raft/ruxsat hu'aa/hone jaataa hooN?

    I was wondering whether the following construct made any sense as a means to sign off?

    "Aur yeh kehte maiN raft/rawaanah/ruxsat hu'aa/hone/hote jaataa hooN. Chaahtaa hooN, aur Umeed rakhte hu'e ke anqareeb baat-mulaaqaat ho gii. Allah Haafiz."

    And in saying this, I shall depart. I wish and hope to hear from and meet up with you soon. Good bye.

    Such is the beauty and ambiguity of formal vs vernacular language that the above to an untrained ear could mean both what the speaker intends but also that this person repeatedly intends to depart or has done so repeatedly. All that differs is the register. For instance someone might come to believe that "Maghrib kaa waqt hu'aa jaataa hai means it is constantly time for Maghrib and they would be quite right so far as the colloquial register is concerned.

    My own two cents are that hu'aa chaahtaa and jaataa are one in the same denoting that something is about to happen. For instance on news channels and the radio it is always without fail, Namaaz kaa waqt hu'aa jaataa hai i.e. time for prayer is nigh, the call will proceed shortly. Yes it can also mean repeatedly but that doesn't take away from its formal counterpart.
     
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