Urdu, Hindi: Interesting use of kyaa

T

tonyspeed

Senior Member
English & Creole - Jamaica
The following is a spech by a woman in a serial to a would-be politician. My question is:
how is "kyaa" being used in the last line? And how would you translate this into English?
I seem to be coming into contact with this colloquial usage of kyaa more and more these days.

sharm aanii chaahii'e aap ko Sir
ek taraf apne aap ko jantaa kaa sevak kah rahe haiN
aur duusrii taraf apraadh ko baRHaavaa de kar
aap hameN chup rahne kii nasiiyat de rahe haiN ?
Aap apni samaaj apni shahar kii sevaa kaise kareNge?
kaise kareN ham aap par bharosa?
kaise saump deN apne samaaj kii bagDoreN aise addmii ke haath meN
jo aurat kii izzat, un kii surakshaa nahiN kar sakte?
balki auratoN kii izzat ke saath apraadhiyoN ke lie saudaabaazi kar rahaa hai?
vo hamarii samaaj kii rakshaa kyaa karegaa?


apraadh - crime
raksha - protection
sevak - servant
seva - service
surakshaa - security
jantaa - public
 
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    • To clarify, if someone said: "kyaa vo hamarii samaaj kii rakshaa karegaa?" or "vo hamarii samaaj kii rakshaa karegaa kyaa?"
    I would translate this is as "will he protect our society?". But the context in which "vo hamarii samaaj kii rakshaa kyaa karegaa?"
    is used seems to imply a different connotation. Kind of like, "what in the hell will he be able to do for sociry"? But in that case, I am
    expecting to see something like "vo hamarii samaaj kii rakshaa ke lie kyaa karegaa?" Please explain the idiom I am seeing, if it is
    really is some idiom I am unfamilar with.

    Along the same lines as thread http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2781993 , could this be a usage of kyaa meaning "kaise"?
     
    samaaj is masculine, I believe.

    Here "kyaa" implies "kaise" and this use of kyaa is quite normal.
     
    Yes, it is quite common but peculiar because it is not a simple ''kaise'' or ''what sort of'', it expresses an affectionate meaning which I can illustrate with another Urdu expression ''wuh hamaare samaaj kaa taHaffuz xaak kare gaa?" It is the same in meaning. It implies that it is absolutely not thinkable for him to be ever able to comply with his duty.
     
    "kyaa" here means "what sort of", as Dib jii has indicated, and it is a very normal use of "kyaa". It is a sort of "kaise", but non-interchangeable with "kaise" here in terms of sense (though grammatically interchangeable); Quresh jii has already mentioned the "kaise" point. As for "khaak", I do make a difference between "voh hamarii raksha kyaa karegaa?" and "voh hamaari rakshaa kyaa khaak karegaa?" The latter is stronger, and more opinionated.
     
    One interesting informal substitute for "xaak" in this context is "ghanTaa". It is just as much opinionated, but at the same time street lingo-ie. I can also think of a vulgar substitute, but I am not sure about the forum's censorship policies. So, not putting it here. :D
     
    ^ Indeed, though "ghantaa" is also considered vulgar. It's used in the trailer of the upcoming Hindi movie "Gulab Gang".
     
    Huh. Is it? So, would you say, I should not use this "ghanTaa" when talking to my friend's parents for example? I thought it was just slang, but not vulgar.
     
    Dib said:
    Ahah. In a PM, littlepond has just explained to me why my aternative is vulgar. And, now, I am embarrassed. :(
    Click to expand...


    I would consider ghanTaa to be vulgar along the lines of "this sucks" or "you dillweed" in English. I could be wrong. Not a curse word, but not polite speech.
     
    littlepond said:
    As for "khaak", I do make a difference between "voh hamarii raksha kyaa karegaa?" and "voh hamaari rakshaa kyaa khaak karegaa?" The latter is stronger, and more opinionated.
    Click to expand...
    I quite agree, there *is* a difference between ...xaak kare gaa and ...kyaa kare gaa. The difference is in the intensity of meaning and I introduced this alternate sentence with xaak just to illustrate the sense in which kyaa is used. It is the same sentiment but expressed yet more strongly. Thanks for giving a signal, I should have perhaps noted it then.
    I wouldn't say ''rakshaa kyaa xaak karegaa." I would only say "rakshaa xaak karegaa"
     
    We use both, marrish jii: "[rakshaa] khaak karegaa?" and "[rakshaa] kyaa khaak karegaa?" The latter is slightly more intense in terms of being cynic.
     
    ^ But in your example the kyaa is simply a question marker...what do you think?
     
    ^ I do not think so, Quresh jii; after all, no one is talking about "what, which khaak". "kyaa khaak karegaa" can have the "khaak" elided, and thus we have "kyaa karegaa" - back to from where we started. Of course, in my post 14, I should maybe use exclamation marks at the end of both sentences, rather than a question mark.
     
    Dib said:
    Ahah. In a PM, littlepond has just explained to me why my aternative is vulgar. And, now, I am embarrassed. :(
    Click to expand...

    Dibjii your "kyaa ghaNTaa karegaa" made me homesick! This is something which you say while speaking to friends. I can't imagine uttering this in front of my friend's (or even enemy's) parents, unless I wanted to get back at him for something equally appalling he did to me... perhaps not even then! :). Good to know UP has no monopoly over ghaNTaa!
     
    In this predicament of mine, you see what happens when you pick up a language in the wild, but only have access to a part of the wilderness (here, the college campus). Thankfully I have never been needed to use my Hindi skills in formal situations*. Who knows what other pitfalls are waiting out there for me. :D

    * Thinking of Chatur's speech in Three Idiots. :)
     
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    Here is an example of this kind of "kyaa" from a poem entitled "ek aarzuu" by Iqbal (1877-1938).

    dunyaa kii maHfiloN se uktaa gayaa huuN yaa rab
    kyaa lutf anjuman meN jab dil hii bujh gayaa ho?
     
    I understand that kyaa, when translated as "how" is not the same as jaise, and that there is an implied sense of oddity or implausibility.
    But my question is:
    Is there any occasion in which kyaa is a clear-cut, adverbial "how" translated literally, or the "how" always comes after trying to "massage" the HU sentence in order to make it sound more idiomatic?

    Let me give you an example. The Urdu Lughat gives this example of "kyaa" as "how":

    sab xaamosh the.
    jis kaa puuraa xaandaan xatm ho gayaa ho, use kyaa tasllii dii jaa saktii hai?

    And yes, one could translate that as "how to console ...?", but in fact the kyaa is adjectival referring to the taslii, right?
    So in reality it is something like "what (possible) consolation is to be given ..." or someting.
    (And I think something similar is happening in the OP's example).

    I also noticed, that the "how" meaning is left out of most dictionnaries.
    So, does kyaa = "how" really exist, or it is always the product of some degree of translating elaboration?
     
    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    sab xaamosh the. jis kaa puuraa xaandaan xatm ho gayaa ho, use kyaa tasllii dii jaa saktii hai?
    Click to expand...
    I would say both "what?" and "how?" could fit this context.

    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    I also noticed, that the "how" meaning is left out of most dictionnaries.
    So, does kyaa = "how" really exist, or it is always the product of some degree of translating elaboration?
    Click to expand...
    Well, if the meaning implied is "how", then I can't see how it would be "some degree of translation elaboration".

    بیاں کیا کیجئے بیدادِ کاوش ہائے مژگاں کا
    کہ ہر اِک قطرۂ خوں دانہ ہے تسبیحِ مرجاں کا

    مرزا اسدالّلہ خان غالب

    bayaaN kyaa kiiji'e bedaad-i-kaavish-haa-i-miZgaaN kaa
    kih har ik qatrah-i-xuuN daanah hai tasbiiH-i-marjaaN kaa

    Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib

    Here "kyaa" means "how?" or "why?".

    کیا تنگ ہم ستم زدگاں کا جہان ہے
    جس میں کہ ایک بَیضۂ مور آسمان ہے

    مرزا اسدالّلہ خان غالب

    kyaa taNg ham sitam-zadagaaN kaa jahaan hai
    jis meN kih ek baizah-i-mor aasmaan hai

    Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib

    "kyaa" here implies "how?" (in the sense of how much?), i.e "kitnaa"

    دل کو آنکھوں نے پھنسایا کیا مگر
    یہ بھی حلقے ہیں تمھارے دام کے

    مرزا اسدالّلہ خان غالب

    dil ko aaNkhoN me phaNsaayaa kyaa magar
    yih bhii Halqe haiN tumhaare daam ke

    Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib

    kyaa - how?

    magar - perhaps
     
    What about the other example given in the Lughat as an example of "how"?


    رونے نے میرے بند کیا کاروبارِ دہر
    ساون کی ہے جھڑی کوئی نکلے مکاں سے کیا


    What word is the kyaa modifying there? nikale = "how to get out"?
     
    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    رونے نے میرے بند کیا کاروبارِ دہر
    ساون کی ہے جھڑی کوئی نکلے مکاں سے کیا

    What word is the kyaa modifying there? nikale = "how to get out"?
    Click to expand...
    rone ne mere band kiyaa kaar-o-baar-i-dahr
    saavan kii hai jhaRii* ko'ii nikle makaaN se kyaa

    My weeping has put an end to my worldly transactions
    In Saavan rains how can anyone come out of the house

    * metaphorically: weeping bitterly
     
    Moving on to "why":

    [from "kamariyaa"]
    bajaae tuu ye duur se hAurn kyaa? = "Why do you blow this horn from afar?"

    [from "zaalima(h)"]
    jo terii xaatir taRpe pɛhle se hii, kyaa use taRpaanaa? o zaalima(h),o zaalima(h)! = "Why tormenting someone who is already tormented for your sake? Oh, cruel one, cruel one!"

    [from "meraa murshid khele holii"]
    chhuuTaa tiir jo us_kii kamaan se, jaa lage jit lagnaa.
    chorii likhii hai bhaag meN tere, to kyaa sonaa,     kyaa jagnaa? = "... (if) the theft was written in your lot, why sleep, why/or stay awake?"

    Those are all I could find.
     
    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    Moving on to "why":

    [from "kamariyaa"]
    bajaae tuu ye duur se hAurn kyaa? = "Why do you blow this horn from afar?"
    Click to expand...

    I don't know the song, but reading the line standalone suggests this to be replaceable with "kaisaa" (which?), this being the more promising option, or "kaise" (how?), not "kyoN" (why?). For it to be "kyoN" meaning "kyaa," I would expect "kyaa" to be in closer proximity to the verb ("bajaae").
     
    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    [from "kamariyaa"]
    bajaae tuu ye duur se hAurn kyaa? = "Why do you blow this horn from afar?"
    Click to expand...
    I am not sure if the "kyaa" here implies "why". As @littlepond SaaHib has indicated, "kaisaa" seems to fit the bill better. Obviously, further context would help.

    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    [from "zaalima(h)"]
    Click to expand...
    zaalimaa (vocative) O cruel one! zaalimah, in Urdu would be a female zaalim.

    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    jo terii xaatir taRpe pɛhle se hii, kyaa use taRpaanaa? o zaalima(h),o zaalima(h)! = "Why tormenting someone who is already tormented for your sake? Oh, cruel one, cruel one!"
    Click to expand...
    Yes, this is definitely "why".

    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    [from "meraa murshid khele holii"]
    chhuuTaa tiir jo us_kii kamaan se, jaa lage jit lagnaa.
    chorii likhii hai bhaag meN tere, to kyaa sonaa,     kyaa jagnaa? = "... (if) the theft was written in your lot, why sleep, why/or stay awake?"
    Click to expand...

    What does "jit" mean?

    Yes, this too would be "why".
     
    Qureshpor said:
    What does "jit" mean?
    Click to expand...
    where, wherever.

    Qureshpor said:
    "kaisaa" seems to fit the bill better. Obviously, further context would help.
    Click to expand...
    I am afraid the song is not very elaborate:

    o siilii piilii banke, o baalam
    toR de bharam
    chhoR de ghabraanaa
    bajaae tuu yah duur se hAurn kyaa?
    dil ke saare baTan khol de
    khul ke bol de
    sahme rahiyo na(h)
    bataa de teraa aaj hai plaan kyaa
     
    Qureshpor said:
    ^ Looking at the additional context, "why" fits better.

    I presume the word is "haaran" and not hAurn?
    Click to expand...

    I agree with @Qureshpor jii that, with this context, "why" fits better, but could you, @MonsieurGonzalito jii, tell the exact name of the song and approximate time in the video at which this occurs, so I can hear if it is indeed this being sung on YouTube? Because such "kyaa," meaning "why" but situated far from "bajaae," is surprising.
     
    Qureshpor said:
    In which language?
    Click to expand...
    No idea. Hindi?
    जित - विक्षनरी
    although that scene of the movie (D-day) is supposed to be happening in Pakistan!

    littlepond said:
    tell the exact name of the song and approximate time in the video at which this occurs, so I can hear if it is indeed this being sung on YouTube?
    Click to expand...
    Kamariyaa:
    Kamariya-Stree Lyrics
    Some honking is clearly heard in the video, right before that verse (I assume, as a sort of distant "cat call", not daring to really approach the woman).
     
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    panjabigator said:
    I am not sure I've heard this particular usage before. I'm tempted to call my father and ask him! Is this just crude or is there something salacious here?
    Click to expand...
    As a former moderator you will know that the thread topic is about "kyaa" and not "ghaNTaa". You would have considered the latter as "off topic".
     
    littlepond said:
    Do you know around what time in the video? I am not in the mood to listen to what seems the usual terrible song of modern Hindi films in its fullness.
    Click to expand...
    It is indicated in the page itself: 0:15 (the opening stanza). You can even use the buttons to play the embedded video at that time.
    Kamariya-Stree Lyrics
    I cannot post Youtube urls, but the ID is 9LtJYw1eY30 if you prefer to go directly:
     
    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    It is indicated in the page itself: 0:15 (the opening stanza). You can even use the buttons to play the embedded video at that time.
    Kamariya-Stree Lyrics
    I cannot post Youtube urls, but the ID is 9LtJYw1eY30 if you prefer to go directly:
    Click to expand...

    Ok, thanks, I heard it on the page you have linked to. I guess the "kyaa" here in such an unusual position (to mean "why") is simply so that it can rhyme with the other "kyaa" to follow soon after. Terrible song! And terrible translation on that page: I hope you are not taking "sahme rahiyo na" as "don't keep panicking."
     
    Moving on to the adverbial usage meaning "as soon as / barely". It has already been discused here: Urdu, Hindi: The various uses of kyaa

    Here is another example from songs

    [from "teraa naam"]
    tiisraa SafHa(h) kyaa likhaa, kahkshaaN khulne lagii
    SadiyoN puraane sabhii
    raaz khul gae…, mujh_pe(h) kaaynaat khulii hai

    The idea is, I think, to underscore how little of the action qualified with kyaa is necessary, in order to trigger the second action.
    I am not sure the idea if wholly one of temporal immediacy = "as soon as X, Y", but rather causal = "barely X when Y"
    (But in English* one is forced to use adverbs of time nevertheless, to convey this idea).
    ____________________________________
    * In Spanish we have "apenas", which mingles the two meanings handily:
    "Apenas escribí la tercera página, la galaxia se abrió ..."
     
    MonsieurGonzalito said:
    I am not sure the idea if wholly one of temporal immediacy = "as soon as X, Y", but rather causal = "barely X when Y"
    Click to expand...

    Yes, the two events have to be causally linked.

    "voh gayaa kyaa thaa, sab bolne lage." Their talking is immediately after he left and dependent on his leaving.

    If mere temporal immediacy is required, a simple "hii" is enough:

    "voh gayaa hii thaa, (ki) aasmaan phaT paRaa."
     
    I don't know if this has been covered somehow in the previously commented usages, but I just heard this in a movie:

    - tum pagal ho gayaa ho kyaa?

    (for "have you gone crazy or what?" and instead of "... yaa kyaa?", I assume)

    I wonder how you achieve this effect with verbs that do not have an auxiliar.
     
    So "ho ga'e" is more of a resultative participle there, not a verb, like
    Are you "maddened"?
    rather than
    Have you gone crazy?
     
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