Urdu/Hindi/Marathi : Days of a week

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Subhash Kumar, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. Subhash Kumar Member

    I know that in Hindi the following are the seven days of a week:
    Soomwaar, Mangalwaar, Budhwaar, Guruwaar (or Bruhaspatiwaar), Shukrawaar, Shaniwaar, Raviwaar
    सोमवार मंगलवार बुधवार गुरुवार (or बृहस्पतिवार) शुक्रवार शनिवार रविवार
    In Urdu, as far as I understand, following are the seven days of a week:
    Piir, Mangal, Budh, Jumeraat, Jumma, Shanichar, Aetwaar.
    Urduphones, can you please confirm.
    Assuming that my understanding is correct, I notice that four of these seven are different from Hindi. What are these names (Piir, Jumeraat, Jumma and Aetwaar) derived from? Are they any way related to planets/stars like in Hindi?
    like Soom is Moon, Guru is Jupiter, Shukra is Venus and Ravi is the Sun.

    Note: I have also heard Aetwaar for Sunday in Hindi as well; but I suppose Raviwaar is more correct Hindi.
  2. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi

    In Urdu, the most commonly used names for days of the week are almost as you say:

    Piir پير , Mangal مَنگَل , Budh بدھ , Jum3eraat جمعرات , Jum3ah جُمعَہ , Haftah ہفتہ (Saniichar), Itwaar اِتوار .

    But we also have the essentially Persian derived names:

    doshambah دو شنبہ , sehshambah سَہ شنبہ , chahaarshambah چہار شنبہ , panjshambah پنج شنبہ , jum3ah جُمعَہ , shambah شنبہ , yakshambah یک شنبہ . - same order as above.

    Saniichar is still used by some people as are Somwaar, Mangalwaar, Budhwaar. However their use has declined over the years.
  3. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
  4. Subhash Kumar Member

    Thanks panjabigator for pointing to the threads already there on the forum. Sorry for not looking at them before posing my question.
  5. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Not a problem. Curious, what are they in Marathi?
  6. tamah Senior Member

    Tel aviv, Haifa
    Fluent Hebrew, Avg. Hindi & Marathi, Good English, Horrid Russian
    In Marathi they are exactly same as Hindi which are quoted by Subhash kumar in his question. Just that in marathi 'ळ' is used instead of 'ल'
    So the only difference is मंगलवार in Hindi and मंगळवार in Marathi. Thats it.
  7. Expatobserver New Member

    Urdu Itwaar is a corruption of Adityawaar. BTW, all my Pakistani friends (I have 317 friends from the land of the pure) understand Hindi names for days.
  8. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member


    Just one remark concerning what has been said above about Urdu :

    sanichar is not an Urdu word and is never used in PK Urdu.

    Apart from piir for monday, PK Urdu speakers still use a lot the word somwaar.

    As for other days of the week, I have to tell you that many of the PK Urdu speakers I know (more than 317) are not aware of the meanings of words such as guruwaar / brihaspatiwaar / shukrawaar... So I wouldn't say that Urdu speakers know Hindi names of the day that well...
  9. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    I didn't claim that sanichar is an "Urdu" word - hence the brackets. Its use has sharply declined but was used but many "Karachiites" (including Urduphones) when I was there years ago.
  10. Expatobserver New Member

    Pakistan bada mulk hain. wo depend karata hain aapke dost kahanke hain. Most Pak Punjabi speakers understand Hindi names. I made a small mistake, I have 318 PK friends. I forgot Jabbar. Funny thing, If I say to Jabbar Chalo bhai Jabbar muzhe Gurwaar milana alane falane hotel men, tumhe achha khana khilata hoon, tau he know perfectly well which day. Haina kamaal?
  11. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    kamaal to hai magar ek khaas paRhe likkhe aadmii ka. Asal mein zyaadatar Paksitani log nahin jaante khaas taur pe woh tiin naam nahin jaante jin kaa main ne zikar kiyaa hai... Yeh is pe depend nahin karta ki kahaan sey hain, balki is pe depend karta hai ki Hindi movies kitnii dekhte hain... Kyonki is mulk mein yeh saare alfaz Hindi movies mein hi sunne ko milte hain... Yeh aur baat hai ki khaas urdu bolne wale muhaajiron mein sey kuchh aisey buzurg hazraat bhii maujood hain jin ko aaj tak yeh saarey naam achi tarah sey yaad hain, jo ki apney bachpan mein apne hindu hamsaayon se suna karte the.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  12. bakshink Senior Member

    I too think at least guruvaar and Brihaspatvaar (Both names of Jupiter planet) may not be understood in Pakistan but all others because of Punjabi influence may be. Also if Aitvaar or Itvaar comes from the word "Aditya" which also means Sun then what's the Urdu word of Persian, Arabic origin for it?
  13. BP. Senior Member

    Since Monday is do shamba, Sunday should be yak shamba-یک شنبہ, though itwaar is almost exclusively used. The -shamba system has all but vanished in favour of Sanskrit-based day-names for the first half of the week.
  14. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Platts says that "rabivār" comes from Aramaic. Interesting!
  15. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    This is an interesting discussion I was delighted finding out the origin of itwaar.... (> aditya, Deity of the Sun).

    There are no alternate Urdu words for itwaar, mangal(waar) et budh(war). Urdu retained the name of a number of Hindu planets for naming the days of the week. Look at romance languages which use the name of planets coming from Roman mythology while English uses those of Nordic mythology.

    The fact is that the languages Urdu relied on to borrow most of its cultural identity don't use planet names but numbers for days of the week (Arabic & Persian). Urdu really has a mixed and quite unique system.

    Can anyone explain the origin of Piir (means 'old' in Farsi) ?????

    Pg, Ravivaar comes from sanskrit ravi = sun (don't think Sanskrit has only one word for the sun!). So I have to disagree with Platt's etymology.
  16. BP. Senior Member

    The two piiraan wouldn't be related.
  17. Expatobserver New Member

    Agar aap jo kahate hon woh such hain, tau mujhe shaq hain ke Jabbar nahi samjha kis din maine usko bulaya tha, wo tau bechara har din wahan jaake dekhta hoga ke main wahan hoon ke nahi!
  18. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi

    is Platts about the Adityawaar -> Itwaar.

    Also, in my post # 2 above, all the Persian days of the week are listed. Although some of us may know the same in Arabic but we don’t actually use them.

    This is very much true! However, those like us who also happen to be Farsiphones, continue to employ the shambah system in parallel with the standard Sanskrit-Urdu system. Even for us, the latter is more frequent in daily use.

    Platts does get it wrong sometimes! I know of other examples too.

    I think you are right. Platt’s suggestion of rabibar (rabiibaar) seems quite odd since in Hebrew-Aramiac, rabi (rabbii) = teacher, instructor and the Aramaic bar = son (of). This bar gained fame because of the name, Barabbas - a Hellenization of the Aramaic name, Bar Abba (בר אבא). Literally means “son of (= bar) the father (= abba)". The person who was released instead of Jesus, thus escaping crucifixion.

    Unfortunately most dictionaries do not clarify the etymology for this other than lumping this piir (Monday)with the other, meaning <old, a spiritual guide, priest etc.>. But there are various suggestions (may be none credible I guess), like Monday once having a special reverence value or something as such, hence the name piir!

    certainly makes many compounds, some of which may be of a reverential nature:

    پِیرِ سَرانْدِیب piir-e-saraadiib = Adam
    پِیرِ کَنْعاں piir-e-kan3aa.n = Jacob (the prophet).
    پِیرِ مُغاں piir-e-mughaa.n = spiritual guide; a tavern keeper(!)

    [As Hafiz says:
    بمے سجادہ رنگیں گرت پیر مغاں گوید
    کہ سالک بیخبر نہ بود ز راہ و رسم منزلہا

    Same usage in Urdu:

    بیٹھا ہے آج رندوں میں پیرِ مغاں بنا
    نواب کل تو مدعی احتساب تھا

    پِیرِ بَیعَت piir-e-bay3at = مرشد murshid
    پِیرِ دَہْقانِ فَلَک piir-e-dahqaa.n falak = sky, firmament.
    پِیرِ مَے فَروش piir-e-mai farosh = tavern keeper (literally “wine seller” - not cellar!). But also a guiding elder.

    There are, however, also the general and mundane or just plain negative usages of piir, e.g.

    پِیر زَن piir zan = old woman; پِیر مَرد piir mard = old man, پِیر سال piir saal = old; پِیرِ خَرِف piir-e-xarif = senile old person; پِیرِ تَسمَہ پا piir-e-tasmah paa = figuratively, an unending trial and tribulation (refers to a nasty character in Persian literature) = a millstone round the neck.

    etymology for Monday seems unclear to me as I don’t know whether I should believe the point about it being sacred, though some people have tried to convey this meaning to me.
  19. UrduMedium

    UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    This has been a vexing question since someone (a Hindi speaker) asked me what's the origin of the word 'pir' for Monday. No one seems to know. However, finally I did come across a link that seems to give some credible meaning to it.

    Since a sa new user I cannot post a URL, I am copying the content of the entry for the word from www dot clepk dot org / oud / viewword.aspx?refid=14424 below.

    فارسی زبان میں مستعمل، 'دوشنبہ' کو متبرک سمجھتے ہوئے 'پیر' کی مناسبت سے 'پیر' کہنا شروع کر دیا۔ 1695ء میں "دیپک پتنگ" میں مستعمل ملتا ہے۔

    اسم معرفہ ( مذکر - واحد )
    1. اتوار کے بعد کا دن، دوشنبہ، سوموار۔
     پادری سے وہ ملے پہلے تو کیا شیخ کو عذر
    دیکھیے پیر کا نمبر تو ہے اتوار کے بعد ( کلیات، اکبر، 227:3 )
  20. UrduMedium

    UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    OK starting a new thread under Urdu-Persian heading to further pursue this ...
  21. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    Is there any reason in particular why perso-phones write shanbeh phonetically whilst Urdu speakers do not write it to the letter of the word. Does one language stick to the nuun and the other treat it as a miim (م) for one reason or another? Would highly appreciate your troubles in explaining the variance.

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