Urdu, Hindi: meaning of rakhnaa as a vector verb

MonsieurGonzalito

Senior Member
Castellano de Argentina
Friends,


What is the general, common nuance (if any) that rakhnaa adds as a vector verb?

I don't know if my question is valid. Grammars try desperately to find common nuances that vector verbs add to their main verbs.
But, with rakhnaa, they fail to reach any agreement, and they start citing haphazardly lots of idiomatic usages.

My interpretation is that rakhnaa implies "some sustained effort by the doer", that was necessary in order to keep the situation in that state, but that ends when said effort ceases). Also, as rakhnaa is used mostly with perfected actions, there is the suggestion that the effort did cease.

That would apply to most of the examples I have seen:

- le rakhnaa = to borrow (an effort by the borrower to "keep" the loan, but it will end)
- de rakhnaa = to loan (an effort by the loaner, but it will end)
- pii rakhnaa = to have drunk already (an effort to keep down excessive? drink, but in the understanding that the person is not drinking anymore)
- paal rakhnaa = to maintain or sustain (in an unnatural or unusual way, bound to end)
- chhoR rakhnaa = to quit with effort (as in quit smoking, bound to end if willpower ceases)
- rakh rakhnaa = to put things in an unusual or inadequate place (requiring sustained effort to be kept that way)

Does my interpretation of "perfected action subject to continued effort" make sense?
Or I am generalizing wrongly, based on too few examples?
 
  • Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    Relevant section in Urdu: An Essential Grammar: currently available here.

    There isn't necessarily a continued effort in all cases.

    rakh(e) rakhnaa can mean to have stored away for later use/rainy days/etc. (rakh choRnaa) or can also convey the definition in this entry (depending on context).


    خود اپنے آپ سے بھی بات کرنا چھوڑ رکھا ہے
    جسے جینا ہو تنہا وہ ہمارا حوصلہ دیکھے

    شاہدہ صدف

    We have on our own accord kept ourselves from talking to ourselves/(introspection)

    جب سے تو نے مجھے دیوانہ بنا رکھا ہے
    سنگ ہر شخص نے ہاتھوں میں اٹھا رکھا ہے

    حکیم ناصر

    Ever since you have made me enamored of yourself
    Every person has since then kept a stone clutched in his/her hand


    دل میں اور تو کیا رکھا ہے
    تیرا درد چھپا رکھا ہے


    چپ چپ کیوں رہتے ہو ناصرؔ
    یہ کیا روگ لگا رکھا ہے

    ناصر کاظمی

    Various uses of rakhnaa can be seen in this famous Ghazal of Nasir Kazimi.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    The action had happened and the status quo had continued when the speaker said it. For example, from the book example given by @Alfaaz jii, "x ne saaRii paihn rakhii thii": x had worn the sari before the speaker said it and had continued to wear it when the speaker met her. So, action happened before reference point and continued till then (at least). Again, "maiN ne use udhaar de rakhaa hai": what's implied is that I have given him a loan, and he still has not returned it (at the time when the speaker is speaking, in this case the present itself).

    The time reference part, though, could be indicated in other ways, too: for example, "x saaRii pahne hue thii," "maiN ne use udhaar diyaa huaa hai." "rakhnaa" softens it a bit and takes away the doer's agency a little bit in perception. That is,

    "maiN ne use udhaar diyaa huaa hai, par veh lauTaa nahiiN rahaa" is slightly more accusatory to oneself (why did I do that?) than "maiN ne use udhaar de/diye rakhaa hai, aur ab veh lauTaa nahiiN rahaa."
     
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    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    @littlepond jii's answer explains more than all the grammars I handle combined.
    It makes me realize that rakhnaa is quite grammaticized to show a particular situation of tense and aspect, and it is much less arbitrary in meaning, than what grammars lead you to believe.

    So let me see if I understood completely:

    For example, in one of the beautiful ghazals in question:

    saNg har shaxS ne haathoN meN uThaa rakhaa hai
    jab se tuu_ne mujhe diivaanaa banaa rakhaa hai


    The nuance conveyed is that "You drove me crazy (and I continue being crazy as a result)" and people "took up stones in their hands (and keep holding them, as in preparation to hit me anytime)"?

    So it is a perfected action, that continues to have ("maintains") its consequences in the past ...

    In that regard:
    x ne saaRii paihn rakhii thii

    Would make more sense is pahnnaa meant "to put on" (perfectible action) rather than "to wear", as most dictionaries also suggest.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    And in that same regard, it is not that de rakhnaa simply means "to loan", as some grammars suggest.

    Rather, de rakhaa means that I gave you something, once, but in such a way, that it has enduring consequences in the present. So there is the strong suggestion that it is something provisory (as in a loan). Or may also be something "given in usufruct" or in commission or in concession by a government, etc.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    The last usage of "rakhaa" as a vector verb in the ghazal in question is lagaa rakhnaa:

    chup-chup kyuuN rehte ho, naasir
    yah kyaa rog lagaa rakhaa hai



    What does it mean, please?
    Below is the entry in the Urdu Lughat, which, for me, might as well be written in Ancient Assyrian o_O:

    lagaa rakhnaa
    1. vaqt be vaqt ke lie rakh chhoRnaa, saiNt rakhnaa, bachaa rakhnaa
    2. chhupaa kar rakhnaa (kisii maqsuud se)
    3. mashGuul rakhnaa, masruuf rakhnaa
    4.
    ...1 paas se judaa na hone denaa, saath rakhnaa
    ...2 chimTaae rakhnaa
    ...3 miil milaap rakhnaa, taalluq ko qaa'em rakhnaa
    5. musalsal koii kaam kiye jaanaa
    6. ummiid meN rakhnaa, aas meN rakhnaa, laaraa dete rehnaa, [ہلکائے whatever this is] rakhnaa
    7. apnii taraf maa'il kar lenaa
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    @littlepond jii's answer explains more than all the grammars I handle combined.
    For once, my explanation seemed to be lucid enough! :D Thanks!

    For example, in one of the beautiful ghazals in question:

    saNg har shaxS ne haathoN meN uThaa rakhaa hai
    jab se tuu_ne mujhe diivaanaa banaa rakhaa hai


    The nuance conveyed is that "You drove me crazy (and I continue being crazy as a result)" and people "took up stones in their hands (and keep holding them, as in preparation to hit me anytime)"?
    Yes (if "saNg" means stone, as I don't know that word for stone). However, I don't think "as a result" or any consequence is needed here: you drove me crazy, and you are still driving me crazy. Simple.

    So it is a perfected action, that continues to have ("maintains") its consequences in the past ...

    In that regard:
    x ne saaRii paihn rakhii thii

    Would make more sense is pahnnaa meant "to put on" (perfectible action) rather than "to wear", as most dictionaries also suggest.
    Rather, it makes sense if it means "wearing," rather than "to put on." One cannot keep putting on something. She had worn the sari (i.e., immediately after put on, is wearing), and she was still wearing it. The English verbs seem to be confusing you here.

    Rather, de rakhaa means that I gave you something, once, but in such a way, that it has enduring consequences in the present. So there is the strong suggestion that it is something provisory (as in a loan). Or may also be something "given in usufruct" or in commission or in concession by a government, etc.
    Yes. But the giver expects something in return: that's why it is often taken to be as a "loan." That return need not be to the giver. (See example following this para.) A government concession, I think, is made in the hopes of getting something, but is not weighty enough to really get something in return.

    Example (of a "non-loan loan"):

    A: "are yaar, gaae khariidnii hai, par kam se kam pachaas hazaar lageNge."
    B: "par maiN ne tumhe jo paise de rakhe haiN, voh/ve tum pe haiN ki nahiiN ab? agar haiN, to kyaa dikkat hai?"
    A: "haaN, haiN to sahii, par maiN soch rahaa thaa ki unheN biTTuu kii shaadii ke liye joR ke rakhooN..."


    The last usage of "rakhaa" as a vector verb in the ghazal in question is lagaa rakhnaa:

    chup-chup kyuuN rehte ho, naasir
    yah kyaa rog lagaa rakhaa hai

    Literally, what disease have you been keeping to yourself, have you been afflicting with yourself? That is, some time back, you afflicted yourself with a rog, and I find that you still are afflicting yourself with this rog. I don't know the couplet in question and its context, but rog is often used in the context of the "disease of love."
     
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    desi4life

    Senior Member
    English
    Yes (if "saNg" means stone, as I don't know that word for stone). However, I don't think "as a result" or any consequence is needed here: you drove me crazy, and you are still driving me crazy. Simple.

    Yes, “sang” in this context means stone. It’s of Persian origin.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    I could locate the news article (in Hindi) where I first read that usage of de rakhnaa as (what seems to be) some "government adjudication/concession".
    From what I can gather, the exploitation of some parking lot next to a railway station was "given" to a crook who was a fugitive from jail.

    Relevant excerpts:

    relve ne badmaash ko de rakhaa thaa do sTeshan kii paarkiNg kaa Thekaa pulis ne kiyaa hai girphtaar

    satnaa: pashchim madhy rel jabalpur maNDal ke satnaa va mehar relve sTeshan meN vaahan paarkiNg kaa Thekaa ek badmaash chalaa rahaa thaa.
    bataayaa gayaa ki is badmaash ko paaNch saal kii sajaa paRne ke baad se vah pharaar ho gayaa thaa.
    do din pehle jab maNDlaa pulis ne aaropii ko pakRaa to relve ko sudh aaii ki usne jis Thekedaar amit khampriyaa ko laakhoN kaa Thekaa de rakhaa hai, uske khilaaph kaii thaanoN meN aapraadhik prakraNR darj haiN.
    kii girphtaarii hote hii Thekaa radrv kar diyaa hai

    Maybe the goverment/concession sense comes from a Thekaa (contract), being "given", rather than from de rakhnaa per se?
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Maybe the goverment/concession sense comes from a Thekaa (contract), being "given", rather than from de rakhnaa per se?

    If you meant to use "concession" in the sense of a contract (i.e., a Thekaa), as it seems so, then yes, of course, it can again be used. In India, we use "contract" more in normal spoken language for such things (legal language may still use "concession"). The word "concession" in India often means a lower price asked for by the government or some other authority for the use of some thing or service (e.g., students are eligible to get "concession" on travel tickets, etc.), which is what my mind had gone to when you first said the word.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    (rakh choRnaa) or can also convey the definition in this entry (depending on context).

    خود اپنے آپ سے بھی بات کرنا چھوڑ رکھا ہے
    جسے جینا ہو تنہا وہ ہمارا حوصلہ دیکھے

    شاہدہ صدف

    We have on our own accord kept ourselves from talking to ourselves/(introspection)
    So, what would be the difference between:


    maaN banane ke ba3d, dishaa ne ekTiNg karnaa chhoR rakhaa hai

    and simply:

    maaN banane ke ba3d, dishaa ne ekTiNg karnaa chhoR diyaa ?

    That in the first case, Disha has been consciously, actively abstaining from acting (in some sort of continuous effort), while in the second case we are informed that she just quit acting?
     

    aevynn

    Senior Member
    USA
    English, Hindustani
    It makes me realize that rakhnaa is quite grammaticized to show a particular situation of tense and aspect, and it is much less arbitrary in meaning, than what grammars lead you to believe.
    Just aspect. The tense just depends on the tense reflected on the light verb's conjugation.

    ---

    I think @littlepond jii hit the nail on the head when he described the aspectual aspect of rakhnaa (ie, "action happened before reference point and continued till then"). I also think @Alfaaz jii was maybe onto something with "to have stored away for later use/rainy days/etc." More precisely, I think a common nuance of rakhnaa as a light verb is that it's a perfected action (in the aspectual sense that @littlepond jii described) that was probably done with some sort of purpose in mind...?

    You hit on this above when you noted that sang har shaxS ne haathoN meN uThaa rakhaa hai conveys "took up stones in their hands (and keep holding them, as in preparation to hit me anytime)." In contrast, sang har shaxS ne haathoN meN uThaayaa hu'aa hai is a fairly neutral "everyone's picked up a stone" and they may still be holding these stones, but there's not much by way of implication that there's a purpose behind the stones. Some other examples:

    us_ne saaRii pahanii hu'ii thii is a fairly neutral "She was wearing a sari" (or, since you seem to like this pedantry, she had "put on" a sari prior to the time of reference and the effects of that "putting on," ie, the "wearing," continued up to the time of reference :)). In contrast, us_ne saaRii pahan rakhii thii makes me think that she had put on the sari with some purpose in mind, in anticipation of some situation which might have required her to be wearing a sari.

    dil meN dard chhupaayaa hu'aa hai is a neutral "You've hidden the pain in your heart." dil meN dard chhupaa rakhaa hai sort of makes me think you've kind of squirreled away the pain inside of yourself, to make sure no one else sees it, to hide it away from the world, etc.

    us_ne aikTing chhoRii hu'ii hai is a neutral "She's given up on acting" (or maybe, "she's taking a break from acting"). us_ne aikTing chhoR rakhii hai might imply that she gave up on acting for some particular reason, in anticipation of a situation when continuing acting would have caused problems (eg, because she became a mother, as in your proposed example).
     
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    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    Oh, I see!

    So:

    maaN ne pahle apnii peTii meN saiNDvich rakh raakhii thii, jis_kaa ham ne lutf uThaayaa

    is much more adequate than:

    maaN ne pahle apnii peTii meN saiNDvich raakhii huii thii, jis_kaa ham ne lutf uThaayaa

    because of this nuance/expectation of "preparation for a purpose"
    This is very useful, thanks, @aevynn.

    The more I learn, the more I realize how consistently and logically rakhnaa is actually used as a vector, versus the haphazardness and obscurity that grammars claim!
     
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