Urdu, Hindi - New trend (?) where yih and vuh not declined to is and us

[Qureshpor]

Friends,

I have noticed on both Pakistani and Indian channels presenters and others not declining yih to is and vuh to us. I have heard plenty of such cases on Pakistani TV channels but haven't written any examples down. Just now I heard one of the sports presenters on an Indian channel utter the following sentence..

aap pure cricketing logic se dekheN vuh catch ne match aap ke haath se nikaal diyaa

Have you come across this trend? Is this new or has it been going on for a long time?

 

[littlepond]

Just now I heard one of the sports presenters on an Indian channel utter the following sentence..

aap pure cricketing logic se dekheN vuh catch ne match aap ke haath se nikaal diyaa

Was the sports presenter a native Hindi speaker? Lots of presenters and ex-cricketers do not have Hindi as their mother tongue, yet show up on Hindi news channels (and even Hindi commentary).

Have you come across this trend? Is this new or has it been going on for a long time?

I have not noticed anything trending like this in Hindi. One can always find some speakers speaking like that, but I don't recognise any trend per se, at least as far as Hindi is concerned. I too have heard it more often in Urdu broadcasts.

 

[Qureshpor]

One can always find some speakers speaking like that, but I don't recognise any trend per se, at least as far as Hindi is concerned.

Thank you. I'll look out (listen for) for more examples.

 

[RustyHindi]

I've noticed my parents (who are educated native speakers from Northern India) and friends do this but I always just assumed that it was just a big city thing. Didn't realise that the news channels, which tend to use more formal language, were doing this too!

 

[Qureshpor]

I've noticed my parents (who are educated native speakers from Northern India) and friends do this but I always just assumed that it was just a big city thing. Didn't realise that the news channels, which tend to use more formal language, were doing this too!

Thank you@RustyHindi confirming my observations.

 

[littlepond]

Didn't realise that the news channels, which tend to use more formal language, were doing this too!

Hindi news channels use a very vulgarised, street language, rather than "formal" language: their language is an endless repeat of "duudh kaa duudh aur paanii kaa paanii."

By the way, @RustyHindi, given that you say you are from Mumbai, have your parents also lived long enough there to be influenced by bambaiiyaa Hindi? They may be native speakers but at the same time may have lived in a different linguistic environment for many years now: as you know, Mumbai is not a native Hindi speakers' region.

@Qureshpor jii, you have not yet answered the question about the presenter in question. Or do you not remember his name?

 

[Pokeflute]

For another data point (if anyone is curious at hearing this), the comedian Kunal Kamra (from Mumbai as well) says things like "vo paheliyon ka kuch kaam thaa".

I'd be curious if this were a more widespread phenomenon - my understanding is that this is particular to a few varieties of Hindustani due to influence from other languages (as Littlepond notes - Mumbai historically was not Hindi speaking, and IIRC many Pakistanis speak Punjabi as a home language).

Gujarati pronouns (as an example language) don't really have a consistent oblique form in the same way Hindustani ones do. (e.g. "e" (vo) + "nuN" (kaa) = "enuN" (uskaa)).

But that's mostly speculation on my part.

 

[littlepond]

For another data point (if anyone is curious at hearing this), the comedian Kunal Kamra (from Mumbai as well) says things like "vo paheliyon ka kuch kaam thaa".

In addition to living in Mumbai, from my understanding, Kamra is a Khatri, thus the family may originally be hailing from Punjab region.

 

[amiramir]

For another data point (if anyone is curious at hearing this), the comedian Kunal Kamra (from Mumbai as well) says things like "vo paheliyon ka kuch kaam thaa".

But is there an interpretation of this sentence where the vo in fact should not be declined? I don't really know, because I'm not so sure what this sentence means. (These riddles have some work? I'm sure there's an actual meaning here that is escaping me).

Sort of like the M Rafi song ye zindagi ke mele, where it's ye mele that is being talked about-- and therefore it is not *is* zindagi ke mele.

Just a thought.

 

[littlepond]

But is there an interpretation of this sentence where the vo in fact should not be declined? I don't really know, because I'm not so sure what this sentence means. (These riddles have some work? I'm sure there's an actual meaning here that is escaping me).

The only way "voh" would work in such a sentence is that if it were "voh, paheliyoN kaa kuchh kaam thaa," that is the "voh" acting as a kind of interjection (some people do use it like that). Otherwise, it should be "un paheliyoN." As for the meaning, it would be "those riddles had their use," but I don't know in what context Kamra is saying it, not having watched the video.

 

[Qureshpor]

But is there an interpretation of this sentence where the vo in fact should not be declined? I don't really know, because I'm not so sure what this sentence means. (These riddles have some work? I'm sure there's an actual meaning here that is escaping me).

Sort of like the M Rafi song ye zindagi ke mele, where it's ye mele that is being talked about-- and therefore it is not *is* zindagi ke mele.

Just a thought.

"vo paheliyon ka kuch kaam thaa".

a) vo linked with "kaam" and not with "paheliyoN". This will not need for vo to be declined. Otherwise

b) un paheliyoN kaa kuchh kaam thaa

In "ye zindagii ke mele", ye is describinbg "mele" not zindagii.

 

[amiramir]

"vo paheliyon ka kuch kaam thaa".

a) vo linked with "kaam" and not with "paheliyoN". This will not need for vo to be declined. Otherwise

b) un paheliyoN kaa kuchh kaam thaa

In "ye zindagii ke mele", ye is describinbg "mele" not zindagii.

Thanks-- that was all clear. Was just asking if there's a way to interpret the meaning of the sentence where vo wouldn't need to be declined. But littlepondji gave a very clear answer that.

 

[Pokeflute]

The only way "voh" would work in such a sentence is that if it were "voh, paheliyoN kaa kuchh kaam thaa," that is the "voh" acting as a kind of interjection (some people do use it like that). Otherwise, it should be "un paheliyoN." As for the meaning, it would be "those riddles had their use," but I don't know in what context Kamra is saying it, not having watched the video.

Sorry! It should have been "pahiyon"

Apologies for the typo.

I've transcribed the larger monologue below:

maiN apnaa gaaRii park kar liya, Thiik hai?
dekho mere hisaab se parking hai, goverment ke hisaab se parking hai, ek buDDhe ke hisaab se no parking hai
buDDhaa caaroN tyre ka havaa nikaal diyaa
maiN aayaa vaapas, buDDhaa isaa baiTha hai (poses humorously, like an old man stretching)
maiN bola - "uncle, aap kiyaa gayaa ye?"
"haaN, mereko mere ghar ke baahar gaadii nahiN caahiye"
maiN bolaa, "Thiik hai, lekin haTegaa kaisaa? vo pahiyoN kaa kuch kaam thaa"

 

[amiramir]

Sorry! It should have been "pahiyon"

Apologies for the typo.

I've transcribed the larger monologue below:

maiN apnaa gaaRii park kar liya, Thiik hai?
dekho mere hisaab se parking hai, goverment ke hisaab se parking hai, ek buDDhe ke hisaab se no parking hai
buDDhaa caaroN tyre ka havaa nikaal diyaa
maiN aayaa vaapas, buDDhaa isaa baiTha hai (poses humorously, like an old man stretching)
maiN bola - "uncle, aap kiyaa gayaa ye?"
"haaN, mereko mere ghar ke baahar gaadii nahiN caahiye"
maiN bolaa, "Thiik hai, lekin haTegaa kaisaa? vo pahiyoN kaa kuch kaam thaa"

The whole dialogue is replete with non-standard hindi. So the lack of vo-->un is unsurprising.

 

[littlepond]

The whole dialogue is replete with non-standard hindi. So the lack of vo-->un is unsurprising.

I would not even call it non-standard Hindi. This is Hindi spoken by non-native speakers who haven't learnt it well but are able to communicate in it.