Urdu-Hindi: Pronunciation [ɛ], [e]

sapnachaandni

Senior Member
Persian (فارسی)
وضاحت / व्याख्या ---
urduu aur hindii meN das musavvitoN/ swaroN kaa talaffuz/uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai jo phoneme haiN. in ko maiN is tarah dikhaa’uuNgii---

[ə] [a:] [i:] [u:] [e:] [ɛ:] [o:] [ɔ:]
ـَـ (زبر) ا (الف) ـِـ (زیر) یٖ (یائے معروف) ـُـ (پیش) وٗ (واو معروف) ـِـ ے (یائے مجہول) ـَـ ے (یائے لین) ـُـ و (واو مجہول) َـ و (واو لین)


* jahaaN kisii علامت/ चिह्न ke aage “ : ” lagaayaa gayaa hai, is kaa matlab ye hai ki vo alaamat/ chihn kisii طویل مصوتہ/ दीर्घ स्वर kii alaamat/ kaa chihn hai.

urduu aur hindii meN kuchh aise musavvitoN/ swaroN kaa bhii talaffuz/uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai jo allophones haiN. in allophones ke baare meN sirf itnaa bataa’uuN ki in ke liye na urduu lipi meN koii alaamat/chihn maujuud hai na hindii lipi meN. jahaaN tak maiN ne chhaan-biin kii hai, lagtaa hai chaar allophones milte haiN. ab do allophones ke baare meN baat kar ke talaffuz/ uchchaaran ke baare meN kuchh puuchhne vaalii huuN.

in do allophones ko IPA se is tarah dikhaate haiN---- [ɛ], [e]

pahle ye bataa’uuN ki [ɛ] aur [e] kin kin musavvitoN/ swaroN ki alaamat/ kaa chihn haiN---

[ɛ]---
[ɛ] vo aavaaz hai jo “کہنا”/ “कहना” meN “ک”/ “क” ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:].
urduu meN is tarah hai ki---
املا کے مطابق "کہنا" میں "ک" پر زبر ہے، لیکن یہاں زبر نہیں بولا جاتا۔

hindii meN aisaa hai ki---

वर्तनी के अनुसार “कहना” में “क्” व्यंजन के साथ “अ” स्वर लिखा जाता है, पर उच्चारण करते समय “क्” के साथ “अ” नहीं बोला जाता।

ye aavaaz jo “کہنا”/ “कहना” meN “ک”/ “क” ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai (matlab [ɛ]), “یائے لین”/ “ऐ” ([ɛ:]) se is tarah alag hai ki [ɛ:] طویل / दीर्घ hai, lekin [ɛ] طویل / दीर्घ nahiiN hai.
kuchh aur misaaleN/ udaahran jin meN ye aavaaz ([ɛ]) bolii jaatii hai:

“سہنا”/ “सहना” “رہنا”/ “रहना” “محبوب”/ “महबूब” “محسوس”/ “महसूस” “محفل”/ “महफ़िल”
[sɛhna:] [rɛhna:] [mɛhbu:b] [mɛhsu:s] [mɛhfil]



[e]---
[e] vo aavaaz hai jo urduu meN “کہ” bolte vaqt “ک” ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai: [ke]
[e] aur [e:] (یائے مجہول / ए) meN farq ye hai ki [e:] طویل / दीर्घ hai, lekin [e] طویل / दीर्घ nahiiN.
lagtaa hai ki hindii meN [e] kaa talaffuz/ uchchaaran nahiiN kiyaa jaataa. agar merii ye baat Ghalat hai to bataa diijiye.

-------------------------------------------

سوال / प्रश्न ----

in lafzoN ke talaffuz/ uchchaaran ke baare meN aap dostoN kii raay jaannaa chaahtii huuN:

“مِحنت”/ “मेहनत” , “چِہرے”/ “चेहरे” , “مِہمان”/ “मेहमान” , “سِہرا”/ “सेहरा”, “بِہتر”/ “बेहतर”

(“چ”/ “च” ko [č] se dikhaa’uuNgii)

urduu bolne vaale dosto,
uupar meN likhe hu’e lafzoN ke pahle harf ke niiche urduu imlaa ke mutaabiq zer likhaa jaataa hai, lekin in ke talaffuz meN pahle harf ke saath zer () nahiiN bolaa jaataa. agar aap se puuchhaa jaa’e ki in lafzoN kaa talaffuz urduu meN (1) ke mutaabiq kiyaa jaataa hai yaa (2) ke mutaabiq yaa donoN talaffuz milte haiN, to aap kyaa kaheNge?

(1) [mɛhnət], [čɛhre:], [mɛhma:n], [sɛhra:], [bɛhtər]

(jaise kahaa gayaa, [ɛ] vo aavaaz hai jo “کہنا” meN “ک” ke saath talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:] . [ɛ], “یائے لین” ([ɛ:]) se is tarah alag hai ki [ɛ:] طویل hai, lekin [ɛ] طویل nahiiN hai.)

(2) [mehnət], [čehre:], [mehma:n], [sehra:], [behtər]

(jaise kahaa gayaa, [e] vo aavaaz hai jo urduu meN “کہ” bolte vaqt “ک” ke saath talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai: [ke]. [e] aur [e:] (یائے مجہول) meN farq ye hai ki [e:] طویل hai, lekin [e] طویل nahiiN.)


hindii-bhaashii dosto,
uupar meN likhe hu’e shabdoN ke pahle varn ke saath hindii vartanii ke anusaar ए likhaa jaataa hai, par in ke uchchaaran meN pahle varn ke saath [e:] nahiiN bolaa jaataa. mujhe lagtaa hai in shabdoN kaa uchchaaran hindii meN nimnalikhit uchchaaranoN ke anusaar kiyaa jataa hai; kyaa aap is baat se sahmat haiN?

(1) [mɛhnət], [čɛhre:], [mɛhma:n], [sɛhra:], [bɛhtər]

(jaise kahaa gayaa, [ɛ] vo aavaaz hai jo “कहना” meN “क” ke saath uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:]. [ɛ], “ऐ” ([ɛ:]) se is tarah alag hai ki [ɛ:] दीर्घ hai, lekin [ɛ] दीर्घ nahiiN hai.)
 
Last edited:
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    pahle ek tasHiih, sc SaaHibah.

    Urdu meN taviil Huruuf-i-3illat kii aaavazeN sirf alif, vaa'o aur ye kii aavaazoN se vujuud meN nahiiN aatiiN balkih in ke saath qasiir aavaaz kaa imtizaaj bhii hotaa hai.

    masal-an...aa = alif zabar + alif where the first alif is a mere carrier. ( آ )The second alif is alif-i-mamduudah

    baa = be zabar + alif = با

    Similarly ii = alif zer ye and uu = alif pesh vaa'o

    ai or ay = alif zabar ye (Here baRii ye is only used in the final position)
    kai ? (How many? = kaaf zabar ye

    au/aw = alif zabar vaa'o

    jau/jaw (barley) = jiim zabar vaa'o

    The majhuul vowels can be represented thus:

    e = alif ye (baRii ye is once again only in the final position)
    ne = nuun ye

    o = alif vaa'o
    to = te vaa'o why kahnaa etc is pronounced as kɛhnaa is because of the occurrence of h, H or 3. This is the same with words such mihrbaan, miHnat, shi3r, muhr, muHammad, mu3aalajah etc

    I don't regard the vowel in kah..naa, the same as the vowel in miH-nat, in your scheme of things.

    I hope you mention us in your "dispatches" once everything is clear in your mind!:)
     
    Last edited:

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    [...]in do allophones ko IPA se is tarah dikhaate haiN---- [ɛ], [e]
    pahle ye bataa’uuN ki [ɛ] aur [e] kin kin musavvitoN/ swaroN ki alaamat/ kaa chihn haiN---
    [ɛ]---
    [ɛ] vo aavaaz hai jo “کہنا”/ “कहना” meN “ک”/ “क” ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:].
    urduu meN is tarah hai ki---
    املا کے مطابق "کہنا" میں "ک" پر زبر ہے، لیکن یہاں زبر نہیں بولا جاتا۔
    [...]kuchh aur misaaleN/ udaahran jin meN ye aavaaz ([ɛ]) bolii jaatii hai:
    “سہنا”/ “सहना” “رہنا”/ “रहना”
    [sɛhna:] [rɛhna:][...]

    [e]---
    [e] vo aavaaz hai jo urduu meN “کہ” bolte vaqt “ک” ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai: [ke]
    [e] aur [e:] (یائے مجہول / ए) meN farq ye hai ki [e:] طویل / दीर्घ hai, lekin [e] طویل / दीर्घ nahiiN.[...]
    -------------------------------------------
    سوال / प्रश्न ----
    in lafzoN ke talaffuz/ uchchaaran ke baare meN aap dostoN kii raay jaannaa chaahtii huuN:
    “مِحنت”/ “मेहनत” , “چِہرے”/ “चेहरे” , “مِہمان”/ “मेहमान” , “سِہرا”/ “सेहरा”, “بِہتر”/ “बेहतर”
    (“چ”/ “च” ko [č] se dikhaa’uuNgii)

    urduu bolne vaale dosto,
    uupar meN likhe hu’e lafzoN ke pahle harf ke niiche urduu imlaa ke mutaabiq zer likhaa jaataa hai, lekin in ke talaffuz meN pahle harf ke saath zer () nahiiN bolaa jaataa. agar aap se puuchhaa jaa’e ki in lafzoN kaa talaffuz urduu meN (1) ke mutaabiq kiyaa jaataa hai yaa (2) ke mutaabiq yaa donoN talaffuz milte haiN, to aap kyaa kaheNge?

    (1) [mɛhnət], [čɛhre:], [mɛhma:n], [sɛhra:], [bɛhtər]
    (jaise kahaa gayaa, [ɛ] vo aavaaz hai jo “کہنا” meN “ک” ke saath talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:] . [ɛ], “یائے لین” ([ɛ:]) se is tarah alag hai ki [ɛ:] طویل hai, lekin [ɛ] طویل nahiiN hai.)

    (2) [mehnət], [čehre:], [mehma:n], [sehra:], [behtər]
    (jaise kahaa gayaa, [e] vo aavaaz hai jo urduu meN “کہ” bolte vaqt “ک” ke saath talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai: [ke]. [e] aur [e:] (یائے مجہول) meN farq ye hai ki [e:] طویل hai, lekin [e] طویل nahiiN.)
    maiN ne jo baateN aap kii taHriir se aasaanii kii xaatir xaarij kar dii haiN wuh hiNdii se ta3alluq rakhtii haiN aur maiN ab kuchh urduu kii baabat meN guzaarish karnaa chaahuuN gaa. ummiid kartaa huuN aap buraa nah maaniye gaa kih maiN aap ke is shaahkaar ko tabaah-o-barbaad kar baiThaa huuN, yih qat3an merii niyyat nahiiN thii :).

    maiN aap ke sawaal kaa tasalli-baxsh aur qadre faiSalah-kun jawaab to fii-l-waqt dene se qaasir rahuuN gaa, mere andaaze meN to donoN tarzoN ke talaffuz zabaan-e-3aam se paaye jaate hoN ge. yuuNhii kah to saktaa huuN kih duusre silsile meN jo ruup dikhaaye gaye haiN wuhii kuchh ziyaadah hii mumkin lagte haiN aur shaayad aksar bhii mileN ge lekin is mauzuu3 par nah to maiN ne ziyaadah waqt Sarf kiyaa nah hii is kii baariikiyoN tak rasaaN hone tak kii taHqiiqaat meN mashGhuul hone kaa sochaa. aisii taHqiiqaat ke dauraan to a3daad-o-shumaar ko jam3 kar ke shumaariyyaatii wa Ghairah nuktah-e-nazar se jaa'izah lenaa ho gaa.

    chaleN jawaab to meraa chaahe waaziH nah ho lekin aap ko jo urduu paRhne likhne kii xwushii hotii hae is meN aap ko kuchh Hadd tak dilaasaa mile to maiN bhii xwush huuN gaa!

     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    sc SaaHibah. maiN aap ko marrish SaaHib ke mufassal Urdu aavaazoN ke jaa'ize kii laRii kii jaanib ishaarah karaanaa to bhuul hi gayaa! mujhe yaqiin hai aap use mufiid paa'eN gii.
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    ^ shukriyaa Qureshpor saahib & marrish saahib :)

    [...]
    I don't regard the vowel in kah..naa, the same as the vowel in miH-nat, in your scheme of things.
    [...]
    to phir kyaa aap is baat se ittifaaq karte haiN ki “مِحنت”/ “मेहनत” , “چِہرے”/ “चेहरे” , “مِہمان”/ “मेहमान” , “سِہرا”/ “सेहरा”, “بِہتر”/ “बेहतर” ke talaffuz urduu meN aise haiN:
    (2) [mehnət], [čehre:], [mehma:n], [sehra:], [behtər] ?

    [...]
    maiN aap ke sawaal kaa tasalli-baxsh aur qadre faiSalah-kun jawaab to fii-l-waqt dene se qaasir rahuuN gaa, mere andaaze meN to donoN tarzoN ke talaffuz zabaan-e-3aam se paaye jaate hoN ge. [...]

    to phir aap is baat se ittifaaq karte haiN ki urduu meN ye talaffuz:

    (1) [mɛhnət], [čɛhre:], [mɛhma:n], [sɛhra:], [bɛhtər]

    aur ye talaffuz:

    (2) [mehnət], [čehre:], [mehma:n], [sehra:], [behtər]

    donoN kiye jaate haiN.

    kyaa maiN aap kaa matlab saHiiH/ sahii samajh ga'ii huuN?
     

    mundiya

    Senior Member
    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    Sapna jii, merii raay meN Hindi meN चेहरा मेहनत सेहरा मेहमान aur बेहतर ke uchchaaraṇ [e] ke saath hai, [ɛ] ke saath nahiiN.
     
    Last edited:

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    ^ aur meri raay aur anubhav mein kataii nahin, sabhi [ɛ] ke saath hain (main [ɛ] aur [ɛ:] mein idhar farq nahin kar rahaa, sirf [ɛ] aur [e] ke beech kar rahaa hoon). Vaise, kai Hindi bhashi “कहना” ityadi mein schwa, [ə], kaa prayog karte hain.
     

    mundiya

    Senior Member
    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    Littlepond jii, to iskaa matlab yah hai ki aap ko चेहरा kaa "ए" aur कहना kaa pahlaa "अ" ke uchchaaraṇ ek jaise lagte haiN?
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Just listen to Lalu Prasad Yadav from Bihar.

    For me sc SaaHibah, kahnaa has the same vowel as the "e" in the English word "jet". This vowel is not the same as the vowel in "mihr". The "i" in mihr is not the "i" in the English word "pin" and neither the "e" n Urdu "ke" کے, but shorter than this "e".
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    For me sc SaaHibah, kahnaa has the same vowel as the "e" in the English word "jet". This vowel is not the same as the vowel in "mihr". The "i" in mihr is not the "i" in the English word "pin" and neither the "e" n Urdu "ke" کے, but shorter than this "e".
    Qureshpor saahib, lagtaa hai ki aap kaa matlab ye talaffuz hai: [mehr]

    (2) [mehnət], [čehre:], [mehma:n], [sehra:], [behtər]


    ------------
    ----------------------
    ( "کے" kaa talaffuz aisaa hai: [ke:])
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ littlepond Jii, if that is the case, are you saying that for you "saHraa/sahraa" (desert) pronunication is the same as "sihraa" (what the bridegroom wears on his head)?
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    ^ ye sach hai ki hindii uchchaaran meN "कहना" aur "चेहरा" ke pahle varn ke saath ek jaisii aavaaz bolii jaataa hai: [kɛhna:], [čɛhra:]. mere duusre hindii-bhaashii dostoN kii raay bhii yahii hai. mujhe bhii aisaa uchchaaran hindii meN sunaa'ii detaa hai. meraa matlab ye nahiiN hai ki hindii meN [čɛhra:] ke sivaa koii aur uchchaaran miltaa nahiiN hai, meraa matlab ye hai ki maiN ne is ke sivaa hindii meN koii aur uchchaaran sunaa nahiiN hai, yaa agar sunaa hogaa, ab yaad nahiiN kyoN ki hindii meN adhiktar [čɛhra:] sunaa hai.
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^shukriyah. mere liye yih ek nayaa inkishaaf hai!

    film "Heer-Ranjha" meN ek gaanaa hai jis ke bol haiN, "yih dunyaa yih maHfil, mere kaam kii nahiiN". is gaane kaa ek misra3 yih bhii hai...

    saHraa meN aa ke bhii mujh ko Thikaanaa nah milaa

    Are we saying Rafi is pronouncing saHraa/sahraa as sihraa?
     

    Wolverine9

    Senior Member
    American English
    In Hindi, I personally think there's a subtle difference between the 'e' of chehraa/sehraa and the short 'a' of kahnaa/sahraa. I guess the distinction is maintained by some speakers but not all.

    Although the voice on shabdkosh sounds very computerized, it's good enough to show the difference between the two sounds.

    sehraa

    chehraa

    kahnaa

    sahraa (with the wrong meaning).
     
    Last edited:

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    ^ littlepond Jii, if that is the case, are you saying that for you "saHraa/sahraa" (desert) pronunication is the same as "sihraa" (what the bridegroom wears on his head)?
    Qureshpor jii, agar aap afrikaa ke Sahara marusthal kii baat kar rahe hain, to jii nahin: use "sahaaraa" yaa "saahaaraa" kii tarah bolaa jaataa hai, jab ki dulhaa jo pehantaa hai use "sehraa" ki tarah karaa jataa hai. Mujhe yeh baat samajh nahin aayi ki Sahara registaan is panktii mein aayaa hii kyon :confused:
     

    Wolverine9

    Senior Member
    American English
    ^ sahraa/SaHraa is one of the words in Hindi and Urdu for 'desert'.

    From Chaturvedi:

    सहरा sahra: (nm) a desert.

    सेहरा sehra: (nm) a nuptial head- wear, a head-dress worn by the bridegroom at the time of marriage; eulogical verses read at a wedding; auspicious song sung at the time of wedding; ~बंदी the ceremony/process of tying the nuptial headwear; —बँधना to be married; to get the credit for; —बाँधना to tie/don a nuptial head- wear, to get married; —होना, सिर to get the credit for, to be responsible for.
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    littlepond jii, registaan is from Persian, while SaHraa is from Arabic. Examples of SaHraa's useage in poetry:

    jab bahaar aa'ii to saHraa ki taraf chal niklaa saHn-e-gul choR gayaa, dil meraa paagal niklaa Ayyub Romani جب بہار آئی تو صحرا کی طرف چل نکلا صحنِ گُل چھوڑ گیا، دل میرا پاگل نکلا ایوب رومانی
    raat youN dil meN tirii kho'ii hu'ii yaad aa'ii jaise wiiraane meN chupke se bahaar aa jaa'e jaise saHraa'oN meN haule se chale baad-e-naseem jaise beemaar ko be-wajh qaraar aa jaa'e Faiz Ahmad Faiz رات یوں دل میں تری کھوئی ہوئی یاد آئی جیسے ویرانے میں چپکے سے بہار آ جائے جیسے صحراؤں میں ہولے سے چلے بادِ نسیم جیسے بیمار کو بے وجہ قرار آ جائے فیض احمد فیض
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ jaise saHraa'oN meN haule se chale baad-i-nasiim. Also..raat yuuN dil meN tirii kho'ii hu'ii yaad aa'ii

    Last night your faded memory came to me
    As in the wilderness spring comes quietly,
    As, slowly, in the desert, moves the breeze,
    As, to a sick man, without cause, comes peace.


    {Translation by Vikram Seth}
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Perhaps sapnachaandni jii would be kind enough to clarify whether "sahraa" (desert) and "sihraa/sehraa" (bridegroom's head gear) is pronounced the same by Hindi speakers.
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    ^ Qureshpor saahib, hindii meN “सहरा”/ “صحرا” aur “सेहरा”/ “سہرا” kaa talaffuz/ uchchaaran ek jaisaa bhii kiyaa jaataa hai : [sɛhra:] (aur mujhe lagtaa hai hindii meN yahi talaffuz/ uchchaaran “सहरा”/“صحرا” aur “सेहरा”/“سہرا” donoN ke liye aam/prachalit hai), aur lagtaa hai ki jumle/ vaaky se pataa chaltaa hai ki “सहरा”/ “صحرا” kahaa gayaa hai yaa “सेहरा”/ “سہرا”.
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Qureshpor saahib, hindii meN “सहरा”/ “صحرا” aur “सेहरा”/ “سہرا” kaa talaffuz/ uchchaaran ek jaisaa bhii kiyaa jaataa hai : [sɛhra:] (aur mujhe lagtaa hai hindii meN yahi talaffuz/ uchchaaran “सहरा”/“صحرا” aur “सेहरा”/“سہرا” donoN ke liye aam/prachalit hai), aur lagtaa hai ki jumle/ vaaky se pataa chaltaa hai ki “सहरा”/ “صحرا” kahaa gayaa hai yaa “सेहरा”/ “سہرا”.
    Thank you. Please take a look at post 19 and let me know (at your leisure) if saHraa is being sung or sihraa/sehraa.
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    ^ kuchh dinoN ba3d/baad javaab de rahii huuN is liye ki pichhle dinoN meN bahut masruuf/ vyast thii.

    Qureshpor saahib, us gaane kaa link dene ke liye bahut bahut shukriyaa. :) us gaane meN “صحرا”/“सहरा” hii kahaa gayaa hai.
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    urduu bolne vaale dosto,
    (1) ho sake to mehrbaanii kar ke niiche meN diye gaye chaar talaffuz/ uchchaaran sun kar bataa diijiye ki kyaa ye “مہمان”(मेहमान), “چہرہ”(चेहरा), “محنت”(मेहनत) aur “سہرا”(सेहरा) ke urduu talaffuz haiN yaa nahiiN.

    (2) aur mehrbaanii karke ye bhii bataa diijiye ki in lafzoN ke talaffuz/ uchchaaran meN jo “مصوتہ” (स्वर), pahle harf/ varn ke saath bolaa gayaa hai, kyaa vo aap ko us “مصوتے” (स्वर) jaisaa lagtaa hai jo “کہ”([ke]) meN talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai* yaa us “مصوتے” (स्वर) jaisaa lagtaa hai jo “کہنا” (कहना) meN “ک” (क) ke saath talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai**.

    chaar talaffuz/ uchchaaran:
    “مہمان”(मेहमान)
    “چہرہ”(चेहरा)
    “محنت”(मेहनत)
    “سہرا”(सेहरा)



    hindii-bhaashii dosto,
    in chaar uchchaaranoN meN se kaun saa uchchaaran aap ko hindii uchchaaran se alag lagtaa hai?

    -----------------------------------
    *vo “مصوتہ” (स्वर) jo “کہ” meN talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai, IPA ke mutaabiq [e] se dikhaayaa jaataa hai: [ke]

    **vo “مصوتہ” (स्वर) jo “کہنا” (कहना) meN “ک” (क) ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai, IPA ke mutaabiq [ɛ] se dikhaayaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:]
     
    Last edited:

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    hindii-bhaashii dosto,
    in chaar uchchaaranoN meN se kaun saa uchchaaran aap ko hindii uchchaaran se alag lagtaa hai?

    -----------------------------------
    *vo “مصوتہ” (स्वर) jo “کہ” meN talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai, IPA ke mutaabiq [e] se dikhaayaa jaataa hai: [ke]

    **vo “مصوتہ” (स्वर) jo “کہنا” (कहना) meN “ک” (क) ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai, IPA ke mutaabiq [ɛ] se dikhaayaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:]
    mukhe aapkaa prashn samajh thiik se aayaa nahin, sapnachaandni jii; kyaa aap ise kisi naye rup mein pesh kar sakti hain (aur bina urdu lipi kaa istemaal karte hue)?
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    mukhe aapkaa prashn samajh thiik se aayaa nahin, sapnachaandni jii; kyaa aap ise kisi naye rup mein pesh kar sakti hain (aur bina urdu lipi kaa istemaal karte hue)?
    kahaa gayaa hai ki मेहमान , चेहरा , मेहनत aur सेहरा ke uchchaaran urduu meN aise haiN:

    chaar uchchaaran:
    मेहमान
    चेहरा
    मेहनत
    सेहरा

    (maiN ne post #30 meN urduu-bhaashi'oN se ye puuchhaa hai ki kyaa sach meN in shabdoN ke uchchaaran urduu meN in chaar uchchaaranoN ke anusaar haiN yaa nahiiN)

    maiN hindii-bhaashii dostoN kii raay bhii jaanaa chaahtii huuN.
    hindii-bhaashii dosto,
    uupar meN diye ga'e chaar uchchaaran sunne ke baad kripayaa bataa'eNge ki un meN se kaun saa uchchaaran vaisaa nahiiN hai jaisaa hindii meN kiyaa jaataa hai? (yaa in chaar uchchaaranoN meN se kaun saa uchchaaran aapko us uchchaaran se alag lagtaa hai jo hindii meN kiyaa jaataa hai?)
     
    Last edited:

    Chhaatr

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    sapnachandnijii, in udaaharaNRoN meN jis prakaar se mehnat meN "e" kaa uchchaaraNR kiyaa gayaa hai maiN usii tarah se mehmaan aur chehraa meN bhii "e" boltaa huuN.
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    sapnachandnijii, in udaaharaNRoN meN jis prakaar se mehnat meN "e" kaa uchchaaraNR kiyaa gayaa hai maiN usii tarah se mehmaan aur chehraa meN bhii "e" boltaa huuN.
    bahut bahut dhanyavaad chhaatr jii.

    aap se ek prashn karnaa chaahtii huuN chhaatr jii; ye chaar uchchaaran sunkar kyaa aapko aisaa lagaa ki jis prakaar se मेहनत meN "e" kaa uchchaaran kiyaa gayaa thaa, usii prakaar se मेहमान , चेहरा aur सेहरा meN "e" kaa uchchaaran nahiiN kiyaa gayaa thaa? (duusre shabdoN meN, un chaar udaahranoN meN aapko un chaar shabdoN ke "e" kaa uchchaaraN ek jaisaa lagaa ki nahiiN lagaa?)
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    sapnachaandni jii, jo udahran aapne yahaan pesh kiye hain, un mein mujhe "mehnat" alag sunaai malum padta hai anya teen se. Baaki main Chhatr jii ki post no. 34 se purntayah saihmat hun.
     

    Chhaatr

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    sapnachandnijii, aapke diye hue udaaharaNRoN meN mehnat kii tulnaa meN anya sabhii shabdoN meN mujhe "e" deergh jaan paRtaa hai.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    javaab dene ke liye sabhii dostoN kaa shukriyaa.
    ham ne sochaa kih aap ne shukriyad adaa kar diyaa, so hamaaraa kaam xatm!

    bas maiN ek baat samajh na sakii; is baar urduu bolne vaale dostoN meN se kisii ne kyoN apnii raay nahiiN bataa dii?
    is kii shaayad ek vajh yih ho kih do qism kii ek saath taHriireN paRh paRh ke un be-chaaroN kaa sar chakraa gayaa ho!
    urduu bolne vaale dosto,
    (1) ho sake to mehrbaanii kar ke niiche meN diye gaye chaar talaffuz/ uchchaaran sun kar bataa diijiye ki kyaa ye “مہمان”(मेहमान), “چہرہ”(चेहरा), “محنت”(मेहनत) aur “سہرا”(सेहरा) ke urduu talaffuz haiN yaa nahiiN.

    (2) aur mehrbaanii karke ye bhii bataa diijiye ki in lafzoN ke talaffuz/ uchchaaran meN jo “مصوتہ” (स्वर), pahle harf/ varn ke saath bolaa gayaa hai, kyaa vo aap ko us “مصوتے” (स्वर) jaisaa lagtaa hai jo “کہ”([ke]) meN talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai* yaa us “مصوتے” (स्वर) jaisaa lagtaa hai jo “کہنا” (कहना) meN “ک” (क) ke saath talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai**.

    chaar talaffuz/ uchchaaran:
    “مہمان”(मेहमान)
    “چہرہ”(चेहरा)
    “محنت”(मेहनत)
    “سہرا”(सेहरा)



    hindii-bhaashii dosto,
    in chaar uchchaaranoN meN se kaun saa uchchaaran aap ko hindii uchchaaran se alag lagtaa hai?

    -----------------------------------
    *vo “مصوتہ” (स्वर) jo “کہ” meN talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai, IPA ke mutaabiq [e] se dikhaayaa jaataa hai: [ke]

    **vo “مصوتہ” (स्वर) jo “کہنا” (कहना) meN “ک” (क) ke saath talaffuz/ uchchaaran kiyaa jaataa hai, IPA ke mutaabiq [ɛ] se dikhaayaa jaataa hai: [kɛhna:]
    1) haaN, haiN.

    2) nahiiN...aur us kii mere nazdiik shaayad yih vajh ho kih in chaaroN lafzoN meN "he/He" saakin hai jab kih "kih" meN ba-zaahir saakin hai lekin chuuN kih is kaa talaffuz puurii tarH adaa nahiiN kiyaa jaataa, shaayad is vajh se "kih" kaa "i" kuchh badlaa badlaa saa lagtaa hai, ba-nisbat duusroN ke "i" ke. aa'ii samajh kih nahiiN aa'ii?:)
     

    sapnachaandni

    Senior Member
    Persian (فارسی)
    ^ Qureshpor saahib, javaab dene ke liye bahut bahut shukriyaa :)

    ham ne sochaa kih aap ne shukriyad adaa kar diyaa, so hamaaraa kaam xatm!
    معاف کیجیے

    is kii shaayad ek vajh yih ho kih do qism kii ek saath taHriireN paRh paRh ke un be-chaaroN kaa sar chakraa gayaa ho!
    maaf kiijiye, aglii baar aisaa nahiiN karuuNgii. aglii baar urduu jumlaa alag likhuuNgii, hindii vaakya alag.

    1) haaN, haiN.
    Allah kaa shukar hai.

    2) nahiiN...aur us kii mere nazdiik shaayad yih vajh ho kih in chaaroN lafzoN meN "he/He" saakin hai jab kih "kih" meN ba-zaahir saakin hai lekin chuuN kih is kaa talaffuz puurii tarH adaa nahiiN kiyaa jaataa, shaayad is vajh se "kih" kaa "i" kuchh badlaa badlaa saa lagtaa hai, ba-nisbat duusroN ke "i" ke. aa'ii samajh kih nahiiN aa'ii?:)
    aap kii baat kuchh kuchh samajh meN aa'ii, kuchh kuchh nahiiN aa'ii.

    mehrbaani kar ke ye bataa'iye ki us "nahiiN" se aap kaa matlab kyaa hai? aap kahnaa chaahte haiN ki un chaar lafzoN kii "zer" kaa talaffuz aap ko na us “مصوتے” jaisaa lagtaa hai jo “کہ”([ke]) meN talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai aur na us “مصوتے” jaisaa lagtaa hai jo “کہنا” meN “ک” ke saath talaffuz kiyaa jaataa hai?
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ miHnat, mihr, sihraa vaGhairaah meN "he" kii aavaaz numaayaaN hai, jis kaa matlab yih hu'aa kih yahaaN kaa zer "kih" ke zer se qadre alag hai. "kahnaa" meN to zer hai hii nahiiN. yahaaN ek aisaa zabar hai jo aNgrezii lafz "jet" ke "e" ke baraabar hai. baat nah samajhne par ek "zabar-dast" shi3r suniye..

    yaa rab vuh nah samjhe haiN nah samjheN ge mirii baat
    de aur dil un ko, jo nah de mujh ko zabaaN aur
     

    Shahaalam

    New Member
    India-Hindustani
    Mere hisāb se miyārī zabān mẽ talaffuz [ɛ] ke sāth kiyā jātā hai, magar kaī musannif jinkī Hindī dūsrī zabān hai, is tarhā se Urdū alfāzõ ko likhte the jiskī vajā se ye hijje "mānak vartanī" mẽ śāmil jo gaye. Vaise hī môhôbbat, kôhrā vaġairā ko मोहब्बत, कोहरा likhā jātā hai. Ye hijje fonīmī haisiyat de ġalat hãi aur mãi Miyārī Hijje badalne ke liye Hindi Directorate ko xat likhne vālā hū̃.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top