Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi: phabnaa

marrish

Senior Member
اُردو Urdu
Dear friends,

The sentence for illustration is as follows:

U: yih Topii aap ke baRii phabtii hai یہ ٹوپی آپ کے بڑی پھبتی ہے۔
H: yah Topii aap ke baRii phabatii hai यह टोपी आप के बड़ी फबती है.

Is this sentence current and correct? How about the use of the verb in question?
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Dear friends,

    The sentence for illustration is as follows:

    U: yih Topii aap ke baRii phabtii hai یہ ٹوپی آپ کے بڑی پھبتی ہے۔
    H: yah Topii aap ke baRii phabatii hai यह टोपी आप के बड़ी फबती है.

    Is this sentence current and correct? How about the use of the verb in question?

    This verb is common to Punjabi, Urdu and Hindi. It is certainly of common usage in Punjabi but may not be so in the other two languages.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I don't know about Hindi but in Urdu I've never used or heard someone use it. Good to know about Punjabi, that is why I included it in the title:). Perhaps could you give the sentence in Punjabi?
     

    hungariansikh

    Member
    hungarian
    phabna-
    ਫਬਣਾ
    in punjabi means: to make oneself beautiful or presentable;
    to look or appear beautiful, fit well, suit, match;
    to behove
     

    hindiurdu

    Senior Member
    Hindi-Urdu, Punjabi, Kashmiri
    The form I have usually heard in Hindi is "ye Topi aap par baRi fab rahi hai" (the usual ph → f / phal → fal deterioration). I always thought it was borrowed from Punjabi. I think the actual Hindi equivalent is "jach". "Ye topi aap ke/ko/par baRi jach rahi hai." Note that yah/kah/rah/vah are universally pronounced as yeh/keh/reh/veh in the standard Khariboli dialect. It's vah only for Eastern Hindi / Bihari, or people upset that saying yeh breaks the phoneticity of Devnagri.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I don't know about Hindi but in Urdu I've never used or heard someone use it. Good to know about Punjabi, that is why I included it in the title:). Perhaps could you give the sentence in Punjabi?

    The word "phabnaa" and (if I remember correctly) the noun "phaban" are attested in the Farhang-i-Asifiyyah.

    (phullaaN vaaleo) e Topii tuhaaDe utte baRii phabdii e!!
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi.

    I don't believe Platts gives the derivation as being Hindi. At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, both Urdu and Hindi have the same Kharii-Bolii as their base and this verb, along with others would have taken the same path. As for Urdu Lughat, all that is being implied is that the word is neither Persian nor Arabic. I hope you follow my train of thought.

    For Punjabi, I do not know how it is linked to KhaRii-Bolii, if at all. I do know that Professor Sherani's monumental "Punjab meN Urdu" inclines towards Urdu having been descended from Punjabi. But that is another story.
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    I don't believe Platts gives the derivation as being Hindi. At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, both Urdu and Hindi have the same Kharii-Bolii as their base and this verb, along with others would have taken the same path. As for Urdu Lughat, all that is being implied is that the word is neither Persian nor Arabic. I hope you follow my train of thought.
    Yes, I was just trying to show that it is also (equally) used in Hindi and Urdu in addition to "jachnaa" (and Punjabi) as mentioned by hindiurdu SaaHib:
    hindiurdu said:
    I always thought it was borrowed from Punjabi. I think the actual Hindi equivalent is "jach".
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Yes, I was just trying to show that it is also (equally) used in Hindi and Urdu in addition to "jachnaa" (and Punjabi) as mentioned by hindiurdu SaaHib:

    Sure, but what else can one conclude from your statement, "Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi"? Regarding "jachnaa"..

    maqaam Faiz ko'ii raah meN jachaa hii nahiiN
    jo kuu-i-yaar se nikle to suu-i-daar chale

    Faiz Ahmed Faiz



     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Sure, but what else can one conclude from your statement, "Platts and Urdu Lughat both list it as derived from Hindi"? Regarding "jachnaa"..

    maqaam Faiz ko'ii raah meN jachaa hii nahiiN
    jo kuu-i-yaar se nikle to suu-i-daar chale

    Faiz Ahmed Faiz



    janaab-e-vaalaa, jachnaa (or rather jaNchnaa) is used by me instead of phabnaa. bahut a3aalaa shi3r!
    Is the word jaNchnaa or phabnaa used by our poets?

    The word "phabnaa" and (if I remember correctly) the noun "phaban" are attested in the Farhang-i-Asifiyyah.

    (phullaaN vaaleo) e Topii tuhaaDe utte baRii phabdii e!!
    Thanks for the Punjabo sentence.
     

    greatbear

    Banned
    India - Hindi & English
    "phabnaa"/"fabnaa" is a highly common word in Hindi, used in general with "par" or "pe". Example: "Yeh rang to aap pe baRaa fab rahaa hai!"
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Though پهبنا फबना phabnaa is an integral part of our vocabulary, in our Urdu there is a preference for جچنا जचना jachnaa. However, the word we really go for is زيب zeb to form the compound verb زيب دينا zeb denaa, here & here. Also, when we use phabnaa, we tend to say par phabnaa.
     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    The form I have usually heard in Hindi is "ye Topi aap par baRi fab rahi hai" (the usual ph → f / phal → fal deterioration). I always thought it was borrowed from Punjabi. I think the actual Hindi equivalent is "jach". "Ye topi aap ke/ko/par baRi jach rahi hai." Note that yah/kah/rah/vah are universally pronounced as yeh/keh/reh/veh in the standard Khariboli dialect. It's vah only for Eastern Hindi / Bihari, or people upset that saying yeh breaks the phoneticity of Devnagri.


    I had no idea that "phabnā" was also H/U! In my family's Punjabi, we also say "ḍhukkRNā" for this. I may have even started a thread for this somewhere...
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I had no idea that "phabnā" was also H/U! In my family's Punjabi, we also say "ḍhukkRNā" for this. I may have even started a thread for this somewhere...

    PG Jii, but don't we have retroflex in the verb? Apart from that I share your surprise too!
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    What are your views about the sentence I quoted in the OP?

    Good question. There is a school of thought that the postposition "ke" refers to the body of the person addressed. However, "Baabaa jaan" is not in agreement with this. To me the "ke" construction feels somewhat outdated but I could be totally off the mark. I personally don't use it and would prefer "par" as suggested by Faylasoof SaaHib.

    To answer Cilquiestsuens SaaHib's question, I don't believe the noun "phabtii" is connected with this verb.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Good question. There is a school of thought that the post position "ke" refers to the addressee's body. However, "Baabaa jaan" is not in agreement with this. To me the "ke" construction feels somewhat outdated but I could be totally off the mark. I personally don't use it and would prefer "par" as suggested by Faylasoof SaaHib.

    To answer Cilquiestsuens SaaHib's question, I don't believe the noun "phabtii" is connected with this verb.
    This is the most interesting coincidence and a superb answer. Could you please disclose the initials of ''Baabaa jaan'' or even better, refer here what he said?

    You can contact me by PM, if you wish.
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    This is the most interesting coincidence and a superb answer. Could you please disclose the initials of ''Baabaa jaan'' or even better, refer here what he said?

    "yahaaN ek aur nuktah bhii qaabil-i-zikr hai jis kaa ta3alluq zabaan ke muHaavare se hai. zail ke fiqroN meN "ke" ke isti3maal par Ghaur kiijiye.

    Ahmad ne us ke thappaR maaraa

    " " us ke surmah lagaayaa

    ghoRe be us ke laat maarii

    maiN ne us ke chuTkii lii

    us ke ubTanaa malo

    us ke beTaa hu'aa

    gadhe ke dum nah thii

    us ke choT lagii vaGhairah vaGhairah

    ba3z Hazraat kaa is ke muta3alliq yih xayaa hai kih "ke" ke ba3d ko'ii ek lafz maHzuuf hai. masal-an jab ham kahte haiN kih "us ke thappaR maaraa" to asl meN hai "us ke muNh par thappaR maaraa". isii tarH "us ke surmah lagaayaa" is meN aaNkhoN kaa lafz maHzuuf hai. "gadhe" ke dum nah thii" yih asl meN hai "gadhe ke paas dum nah thii."* "us ke choT lagii" ya3nii us ke badan meN yaa jism meN vaGhairah.

    lekin merii raa'e meN yih "ke" vuh nahiiN jo Huruuf-i-ma3naviyyah ke aane se "kaa" se "ke" ho jaataa hai.is meN shak nahiiN kih suurat meN us ke mushaabah hai lekin dar Haqiiqat yih "ke" bhii misl duusrii 3alaamaat-i-izaafat (ba-qaul ba3z muHaqqiqiin) aur "ko" ke Haaliyah "kartaa" se maaxuuz hai aur is suurat meN kisii lafz-i-maHzuuf kii zaruurat nahiiN rahtii. 3ilaavah is ke MaaRvaaRii meN jo misl-i-diigar Hindi zabaanoN ke, Prakrit se niklii hai ab tak "ke" muzakkar aur mu'annas, donoN ke liye isti3maal hotaa hai aur Bhojpuri, Maagdhi, Maithli zabaanoN meN ab tak 3alaamat-i-maf3uul "ke", "kii" bhii haiN. niiz Deccan aur ba3z diigar maqaamaat meN bajaa'e "us ke beTaa hu'aa" kahne ke "us ko beTaa hu'aa kahte haiN jo agarchih Urdu muHaavare ke ruu se Ghalat hai magar asl kaa patah detaa hai."

    Maulavii Abdul Haq- Qavaa'id-i-Urdu

    * I am not too happy with this sentence
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I appreciate the amount of effort and attention you have sacrificed to make this passage available for everybody and for me specially, since it was me who requested it. I'm happy to know that MAH SaaHib expressed his views on this construction and deemed it the correct idiom, because from your previous post it seemed that you had meant to state that he was against this construction.

    To tell you the truth, MAH SaaHib is the author of the sample sentence which I used in the OP, with the addition of Hindi script and respective transliterations.

    *That sentence is really not so fortunate, but MAH SaaHib accredits it to ''ba3z Hazraat'', so they are to blame!
     
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