Urdu, Hindi: The various uses of kyaa

Qureshpor

Senior Member
Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
Recently there has been a thread where one particular use of the word "kyaa" has been discussed. Urdu and Hindi speakers will no doubt know that this word has a pretty wide latitude of distinct meanings. It would be interesting to collect all the various meanings in one thread. If a well known quote incorporating this word can be presented, please do so by all means. I shall begin with the most obvious one and one not so obvious.

uTh baaNdh kamar kyaa Dartaa hai (why)
phir dekh xudaa kyaa kartaa hai (what)

Khvaajah Dil Muhammad (1884-1961)
 
  • marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    shuGhl behtar hae 3ishq-baazii kaa
    kyaa Haqiiqii o kyaa majaazii kaa
    (Wali) (whether, or).
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    kaa babuaa, kaiisan ho? [1]
    kaa babuaa, kidhar/kyaan/uu jaavat/jaat ho? [1]
    kaa, bhojan hui gavaa? [1] or [2]
    kaa, kachhuu khaae ho ki/ke naahii? [2]

    kaa [kyaa] = (1) hello (2) interjection
     
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    tonyspeed

    Senior Member
    English & Creole - Jamaica
    kaa babuaa, kaiisan ho? [1]
    kaa babuaa, kidhar/kyaan/uu jaavat/jaat ho? [1]
    kaa, bhojan hui gavaa? [1] or [2]
    kaa, kachhuu khaae ho ki/ke naahii? [2]

    kaa [kyaa] = (1) hello (2) interjection

    For personal curiosity, why exactly are you using non-standard Hindi in this post? Are these quotes?

    What dialect/type of Hindi and/or language are you using here?
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    shuGhl behtar hae 3ishq-baazii kaa
    kyaa Haqiiqii o kyaa majaazii kaa
    (Wali) (whether, or).
    OK, in the same vein...

    kyaa masjid meN kyaa mandir meN jalvah hai vajhu_llaah kaa
    parbat meN nagar meN saagar meN Har utraa hai har jaa Jogii

    jii shahr meN Khuub bahaltaa hai vaaN Husn pih 'ishq machaltaa hai
    vaaN prem kaa saagar chaltaa hai chal dil kii pyaas bujhaa Jogii

    Chaudhari Khushi Muhammad Naazir (1869-1944) (From a poem entitled "Jogii")

    vajhu_llaah (The countenance of God)

    Har (God)

    har jaa (everywhere)
     
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    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    For personal curiosity, why exactly are you using non-standard Hindi in this post?

    Good question. Because in 'standard' Hindi, for hello, "kaa/kyaa" will often change to "kyon".
    "kyon bhaiisaahab, kaise hain?" "kyon bhaiiyaa, kaise hain/ho?" - kyon = (1) hello, or (2) well (as in "Well, my dear Watson, here we have ...).

    I am using usual day-to-day speech, not quotations from any text. I am using a western UP Hindi (braj/avadhi/khari mix; kachhuu for "kuchh" is typical Braj).
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Here also are two different uses of kyaa, where in one the repetition of kyaa gives a different meaning to the other:

    کیا کیا مچی ہیں یارو برسات کی بہاریں
    کوئی تو جھولتی ہے جھولے کی ڈور چھوڑے
    یا ساتھیوں میں اپنی پاوں سے پاوں جوڑے
    کیا کیا مچی ہیں یاروں برسات کی بہاریں
    نظیر اکبر آبادی


    کیا بود و باش پوچھے ہو پورب کے ساکنو
    ہم کو غریب جان کے ہنس ہنس پکار کے
    دلّی جو ایک شہر تھا عالم میں انتخاب
    رہتے تھے منتخب ہی جہاں روزگار کے
    ....
    مير تقی میر
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Thank you, Faylasoof SaaHib for the above examples. For the benefit of those friends who can not read Urdu, I shall take the liberty and present your examples in Roman transliteration.

    kyaa kyaa machii haiN yaaro barsaat kii bahaareN
    ko'ii to jhuultii hai jhuule kii Dor chhoRe
    yaa saathiyoN meN apnii paa'oN se paa'oN joRe
    kyaa kyaa machii haiN yaaro barsaat kii bahaareN

    Naziir Akbar Abadi

    kyaa buud-o-baash puuchhe ho puurab ke saakino
    ham ko Ghariib jaan ke haNs-haNs pukaar ke
    dillii jo ek shahr thaa 3aalam meN intixaab
    rahte the muntaxab hii jahaaN roz-gaar ke

    Miir Taqi Miir

    Here is another usage. I shall leave the translation of it to the readers.

    diivaar kyaa girii mire kachche makaan kii
    logoN ne mere siHn meN raste banaa liye

    Sabaa
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    ^ What a terrific couplet! I would say, it can be substituted by "jo" or "jab" or even "jab se". In English, I would go for "Now that the wall of my house built of mud bricks has fallen/people made (went on to making) paths/lanes in my courtyard".
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ What a terrific couplet! I would say, it can be substituted by "jo" or "jab" or even "jab se". In English, I would go for "Now that the wall of my house built of mud bricks has fallen/people made (went on to making) paths/lanes in my courtyard".
    You are welcome marrish SaaHib. Why do you think I left this "kyaa"'s interpretation to others?:) Because it is difficult to pinpoint its exact equivalent. Let's see what other friends suggest for it.

    jaate hu'e kahte ho qiyaamat ko mileN ge
    kyaa xuub! qiyaamat kaa hai goyaa ko'ii din aur!

    Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib (1797-1869)

    kyaa xuub! (kitnaa achchhaa [hai yih aap kaa kahnaa])
     
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    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I as one of readers have complied with your request by submitting my interpretation. Let's wait for others, all material is in transcription so I hope for more inputs.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I as one of readers have complied with your request by submitting my interpretation. Let's wait for others, all material is in transcription so I hope for more inputs.
    Hopefully, we'll get back to this.

    darxvar-i-qahr-o-Ghazab jab ko'ii ham saa nah hu'aa
    phir Ghalat kyaa hai kih ham saa ko'ii paidaa nah hu'aa

    Ghalib

    When there was no one to bear wrath and torment like us
    Then how is it wrong to think that there was no one like us
     
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    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I have to ask for clarification about "darxvar". When I understand the couplet fully I might respond.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hopefully, we'll get back to this.

    darxvar-i-qahr-o-Ghazab jab ko'ii ham saa nah hu'aa
    phir Ghalat kyaa hai kih ham saa ko'ii paidaa nah hu'aa

    Ghalib

    When there was no one to bear wrath and torment like us
    Then how is it wrong to think that there was no one like us

    qahr-o-Ghazab ke qaabil jab ko'ii ham saa nah hu'aa
    phir Ghalat kyaa hai kih ham saa ko'ii paidaah nah hu'aa
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Thank you very much, for the English rendition as well. I would have gone for "[phir aisaa kahnaa] Ghalat kyaa hae kih... what's wrong with saying that ...
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    I am finding kyaa in sentences (from songs), accompanied with ye, where I believe there is no choice but to interpret it as a relative pronoun: "this ... which/what ... ".
    This usage of kyaa as a relative pronoun is not listed in dictionaries, so maybe I am mistranslating?

    [from "Mayya Mayya"]
    diivaar pe(h) kyaa likhtaa hai dhuaaN
    dhiimaa ... dhiimaa ... dhiimaa dhuaaN
    har baar ye kyaa kahtaa hai dhuaaN => "what the smoke says"


    [from "Sajan Bin"]
    ham ko dekho ho gayaa ye kyaa! => "what happened to us"

    [EDIT - another example]
    [from "ishq vaalaa lav"]
    ye kyaa huaa hai kyaa xabar? => "what do I know (about) this which happened?"
    yahii pata(h) hai zyaada(h) huaa!
     
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    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    Also, it is just me, or sometimes it is difficult to decide the precise meaning of kyaa?
    For example, in the following stanza:

    kyaa karne hai 3umroN ke vaade
    ye jo rɛhte haiN rɛhne de aadhe?


    That can translate both as "Why should lifelong promises be made?" and also as "Should lifelong promises be made?", I think.

    Or for example:

    ham ko kyaa lenaa hai sab_se?

    Could be both interpreted as "Why should I be concerned?" or "Should I be concerned?".
     
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    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    I am finding kyaa in sentences (from songs), accompanied with ye, where I believe there is no choice but to interpret it as a relative pronoun: "this ... which/what ... ".
    This usage of kyaa as a relative pronoun is not listed in dictionaries, so maybe I am mistranslating?

    [from "Mayya Mayya"]
    diivaar pe(h) kyaa likhtaa hai dhuaaN
    dhiimaa ... dhiimaa ... dhiimaa dhuaaN
    har baar ye kyaa kahtaa hai dhuaaN => "what the smoke says"


    [from "Sajan Bin"]
    ham ko dekho ho gayaa ye kyaa! => "what happened to us"

    [EDIT - another example]
    [from "ishq vaalaa lav"]
    ye kyaa huaa hai kyaa xabar? => "what do I know (about) this which happened?"
    yahii pata(h) hai zyaada(h) huaa!

    In all your examples, "kyaa" is a simple "what," an interrogative. I fail to see how it is relative pronoun (that/which) in any of your examples.

    "kyaa" meanwhile can also act as an interjection. A simple "kyaa!" is often used as an interjection to express forcefully one's being (probably, Mithun does it in the excellent movie Ghulami, but I might be remembering wrongly).
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Also, it is just me, or sometimes it is difficult to decide the precise meaning of kyaa?
    For example, in the following stanza:

    kyaa karne hai 3umroN ke vaade
    ye jo rɛhte haiN rɛhne de aadhe?


    That can translate both as "Why should lifelong promises be made?" and also as "Should lifelong promises be made?", I think.

    I don't know if the couplet in question really uses "kyaa," but even if it were to, there is no issue. You can take it as an elision of "kyaa faaidaa hai umroN ke vaade karne kaa." Thus, in this way, "kyaa" can act like a why sometimes, just like "what" can do in English.

    Or for example:

    ham ko kyaa lenaa hai sab_se?

    Could be both interpreted as "Why should I be concerned?" or "Should I be concerned?".

    You are using an English sentence and letting it confuse your thoughts. Literally, the sentence is meaning "what do we have to get from everyone" - a simple "what." Of course, in English, you would translate it as "Why should we be concerned/bothered?" It is quite good news that you have not thought that "lenaa hai" means "to be concerned."
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    I fail to see how it is relative pronoun (that/which) in any of your examples.
    Well, I have difficulty trying to not see a relative here.
    So let me understand your thought process:


    In English, there are such excamative expressions as:

    What idiot, this one!
    What a lad, my boy!


    Are you saying that is ultimately a similar kind of expression what is going on in:

    ham ko dekho ho gayaa ye kyaa
    =
    Look at what (a "thing") , this (one) that happened to us?

    Do you see the "that" there?
    My point is that, even if one tries to interpret the kyaa as purely exclamative, then a relative connection has to be implicit within the kyaa as well. (And, to my knowledge, said relative connections are not normally elided in HU).

    If there is any syntactic connection between "what we look" and "what happened to us", then there has to be some relative connector.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    OK. So the relative can be elided and it is not cotained in the kyaa. I understand now, thanks!

    Now I will proceed to look for other uses, there are many!
     

    aevynn

    Senior Member
    USA
    English, Hindustani
    Well, I have difficulty trying to not see a relative here.
    So the relative can be elided and it is not cotained in the kyaa.
    There is no relative here, elided or not...! I think ye(h) kyaa should probably be parsed with ye(h) being an adjectival demonstrative that is modifying the interrogative kyaa --- but it is important to remark that HU syntax does not typically allow adjectives/demonstratives to modify pronouns and ye(h) kyaa is a somewhat singular exception to this general rule. In other words, it's as though it's trying to say *this what, but of course this makes no sense in English. [FWIW: In English too, pronouns generally cannot be modified by adjectives or demonstratives, but there are rare exceptions: for example, one frequently encounters "Silly me!"]

    Using this construction emphasizes the proximal nature of the thing that's being asked about, and maybe also imbues the question with a sense of incredulity (something like, "what is this ridiculous/absurd/unusual thing..."). Qureshpor jii's translation in #21 of "ye(h) kyaa ho gayaa" as "what is this that happened" is an idiomatic way of conveying the sense that ye(h) kyaa conveys. It should not be treated as a syntactically "literal" translation --- and in fact there is no great syntactically "literal" translation because *this what just doesn't work in English...!

    PS. This is off-topic, but I do disagree with the translation in #21 on one count: based on the lyrics, I think the ham_ko is not an object of dekho, but rather a dative argument of ho gayaa -- ie, something like "look at us, what has happened to us."
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    PS. This is off-topic, but I do disagree with the translation in #21 on one count: based on the lyrics, I think the ham_ko is not an object of dekho, but rather a dative argument of ho gayaa -- ie, something like "look at us, what has happened to us."
    I agree with you on this count.

    dekho, ham ko yih kyaa ho gayaa?
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    First of all, thanks for the explanation, @aevynn jii.
    Secondly, It had never crossed my mind up to this moment, that "this what ..." could be ungrammatical in English in the sense you describe (which fits perfectly the intended HU translations, BTW).

    One can't says things like:
    "this what you did, couldn't be done ..."
    or
    "the overall bravura of this what you have done ..."
    in an admiring tone, for example?
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    Alright. (I prefer to leave the "this... what" thing at that, not to derail the conversation).

    Because I sense an important theme in the answers that I have been given, which I can't express properly, because it so happens that words like "what" in English also have many possible meanings.

    It would seem that the word kyaa, although it appears to have be dozens of meanings if one sets about to contextually enumerate them, in reality it doesn't have that many.
    It has a generally, exclamative / specificative / "strangeness" / "taking-psychological-distance-from-what-is-being-said" meaning, and then one has to fill in the blanks.

    For example, if what I just said is true, then there are no real translations of kyaa as "How?" or "Why?" (as they too often appear in songs, etc.). Rather, it is always a "strangeness what!" which one then reinteprets as "How ..." or "Why ..." in the sentences in question, just in order to provide a more idiomatic translation.

    Am I getting closer to the spirit of what kyaa means?
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    Also, maybe a way to solve the syntactical conundrum of that apparently "missing relative link" between kyaa and ye, is to think that the "sense of strangeness" associated with kyaa applies to the whole phrase, and not just to the demonstrative.

    For example, the kyaa in the followng verses applies to the whole ye sochnaa, not just to ye:

    [from "Lut Gaye"]
    sochnaa kyaa ye?
    haath de de mere haath meN!


    "What" (unusual, perchance, unexpected, explanation-requiring situation of) thinking this?
    Put your hand on mine!

    And only when looking for a more summarized, idiomatic translation can we say: "Why think this?". But it doesn't mean that kyaa per se means "why".


    Simiarly, the kyaa in the previously discussed example would apply to the whole [ye ham ko ho gayaa]

    dekho, ham ko yih kyaa ho gayaa

    Look, "what" (an unusual, amazement-inspiring situation it is that ...) [this has happened to us].
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Here is an explanation from an Urdu perspective and that too from the diivaan of Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib. It goes without saying that there will be considerable difference in the depth of thought between what you have been quoting and Ghalib's poetry.

    15_10

    "ABOUT THE 'KYA EFFECT': Ghalib loves to create undecideability, and often forces our minds into ricochet mode, as he does in this verse. One of his finest tools for achieving this effect, the little word kyā , is here * displayed to full advantage. Deployed as it is here, kyā can generate three meanings: it can create (1) an exclamation of emphatic affirmation for which we have an English counterpart in 'How joyous!'; (2) an exclamation of emphatic denial for which we have no exact English counterpart ('What-- joyous?! -- Nothing of the kind! The very idea!'); and (3) a yes-or-no question . The result is three distinct, unforced, legitimate interpretations of the first line. I've discussed this in Nets of Awareness, Chapter 8, p. 107. Depending on the grammatical context of the line, there may sometimes be even four or more theoretical possibilities; see for example {111,1}, or the insanely multivalent {32,1}. There is also the strange and fascinating case of {36,10}, in which kyā is not present at all but must be inserted in order to make the verse intelligible. And there's {46,5}, in which the only possible reading is as an emphatic denial."


    مقدمِ سیلاب سے دل کیا نشاط آہنگ ہے*
    خانۂ عاشق مگر سازِ صدائے آب تھا
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I am finding kyaa in sentences (from songs), accompanied with ye, where I believe there is no choice but to interpret it as a relative pronoun: "this ... which/what ... ".
    This usage of kyaa as a relative pronoun is not listed in dictionaries, so maybe I am mistranslating?
    kyaa se kyaa ho gayaa

    = From what ( it was) to what (it) became

    Here I would say "kayaa" is relative.
     
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    amiramir

    Senior Member
    English-USA
    sochnaa kyaa ye?
    haath de de mere haath meN!



    In the above, when I listen to the song, there is no 'ye' after kyaa: it's

    सोचना क्या
    हाथ ये दे दे मेरे हाथ में

    i.e. what's to think about? put your hands in mine


    I wonder if it's just easier to think about yeh kyaa as an idiomatic intensifier "yeh kyaa kiyaa tum ne??" I can't really think of a parallel in English.
     
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