Urdu, Hindi: use bachaa liyaa

[MonsieurGonzalito]

Friends,

In the following sentence, which is supposed to mean "the woman was going to die, but the policeman saved her":

3aurat marne jaa rahii thii, lekin pulis_vale ne use bachaa liyaa

Why liyaa is in masculine form, if, in theory, the syntactic subject / logical object is the woman?

Is it because HU speakers perceive not the woman, but the avoided action (i.e. "being about to die") as the actual object?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Alfaaz]

پیش کردہ مثال میں مذکّر یا مؤنّث کا عمل دخل نہیں ہے۔

پولیس والے نے اسے بچا لیا = پولیس والے نے اس کو بچا لیا
پولیس والے نے مرد/زن کو بچا لیا

مندرجۂ ذیل امثلہ سے موازنہ کریں:
پولیس والے نے مرد بچایا/بچا لیا
پولیس والے نے عورت بچائی/بچا لی

ایک اور مثال:
اس نے پھل کو ضائع ہونے سے بچا لیا اور سبزی کو بھی ضائع ہونے سے بچا لیا
اس نے پھل ضائع ہونے سے بچا لیا اور سبزی بھی ضائع ہونے سے بچا لی​

 

[MonsieurGonzalito]

Oh, I am an idiot. use = us_ko, whose postposition "blocks" the agreement.
Newbie question, sorry.🙁

 

[desi4life]

پیش کردہ مثال میں مذکّر یا مؤنّث کا عمل دخل نہیں ہے۔

پولیس والے نے اسے بچا لیا = پولیس والے نے اس کو بچا لیا
پولیس والے نے مرد/زن کو بچا لیا

مندرجۂ ذیل امثلہ سے موازنہ کریں:
پولیس والے نے مرد بچایا/بچا لیا
پولیس والے نے عورت بچائی/بچا لی

ایک اور مثال:
اس نے پھل کو ضائع ہونے سے بچا لیا اور سبزی کو بھی ضائع ہونے سے بچا لیا
اس نے پھل ضائع ہونے سے بچا لیا اور سبزی بھی ضائع ہونے سے بچا لی​

Your response is fine for an Urdu only thread @Alfaaz, but for threads that include Hindi in the title such as this one, please add transliteration to your posts in the future. It seems to be a common courtesy on the forum to use transliteration in threads that involve both languages.

 

[Alfaaz]

Your response is fine for an Urdu only thread @Alfaaz, but for threads that include Hindi in the title such as this one, please add transliteration to your posts in the future. It seems to be a common courtesy on the forum to use transliteration in threads that involve both languages.

(I always try to include transliterations, but the text unfortunately doesn't appear properly at times (due to Urdu being right to left and English being left to right) and the formatting of the entire post gets messed up. After trying to fix it for a while, I just posted the Urdu text and pasted the English text into a new post that unfortunately didn't get posted earlier.)

Transliteration:

pesh-kardah misaal meN muzakkar yaa mu2nnas kaa 3amal daxl nahiiN hai.

police vaale ne use bachaa liyaa = police vaale ne us ko bachaa liyaa
police vaale ne mard/zan ko bachaa liyaa

mundarajah-e-zail amsilah se muwaazanah kareN:
police vaale ne mard bachaayaa/bachaa liyaa
police vaale ne 3aurat bachaa'ii/bachaa lii

ek aur misaal:
us ne phal ko zaa'i3 hone se bachaa liyaa aur sabzii ko bhii zaa'i3 hone se bachaa liyaa.
us ne phal zaa'i3 hone se bachaa liyaa aur sabzii bhii zaa'i3 hone se bachaa lii.

 

[amiramir]

When I read the title of the thread, I thought the question would be a different one. I thought the question would be why is it bachaa liyaa when saving is done *for* someone else, and not for one's own benefit (i.e. why bachaa liyaa instead of bachaa diyaa?)

A Hindi learner once asked me this question but I didn't have a better answer other that bachaa diyaa didn't sound right to me in this context.

 

[littlepond]

I thought the question would be why is it bachaa liyaa when saving is done *for* someone else, and not for one's own benefit (i.e. why bachaa liyaa instead of bachaa diyaa?)

There would be nothing wrong if you were to use "bachaa diyaa" here: what it would do is that it would add extreme drama and a tone of disappointment (accursed be that policeman, he saved that woman when it was not expected to happen). Now such extreme drama is not needed usually, hence you won't hear it often in such a context.

The banal "bachaa denaa" (without the drama) is for keeping aside of resources (money, milk, etc.) for someone else ("A ne B ke liye thoRaa doodha bachaa diyaa"). "bachaa denaa" here almost gives the literal visual imagination of keeping aside (in a bhagonaa, for example). "bachaa lenaa" or just "bachaanaa" would simply mean save.