Urdu: kih vs. keh

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Faylasoof

Senior Member
English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
This thread started here, post #11.

The rules of transliteration we use in the forum vary, so for كہ some of us use “keh” and others “kih”. I fall in the former group as I wish to keep the distinction between the two transliterated forms given that they have different meanings.

We all know what I/we transliterate as “keh” means, but we also have “kih” which means small, little etc.

P که kih [Pehl. kaś; Zend kaśu; S. कशु], adj. Small, little; slender; mean.

Its derivatives of comparative and superlative are of course: kih -> kihtar > kihtariin.
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    This thread started here, post #11.

    The rules of transliteration we use in the forum vary, so for كہ some of us use “keh” and others “kih”. I fall in the former group as I wish to keep the distinction between the two transliterated forms given that they have different meanings.

    We all know what I/we transliterate as “keh” means, but we also have “kih” which means small, little etc.

    P که kih [Pehl. kaś; Zend kaśu; S. कशु], adj. Small, little; slender; mean.

    Its derivatives of comparative and superlative are of course: kih -> kihtar > kihtariin.
    Thank you, Faylasoof SaaHib, for starting this thread. Hopefully Alfaaz SaaHib will be able to express his views to his heart's content here.

    As I said before, I try to emulate Urdu system of writing in my transliteration. It is true that I do not distinguish all the "s"s and the "z"s but as a practitioner of Urdu, I know which s or z is representing the actual letter in the Urdu alphabet.

    "kih" is the way it is in Urdu, if it were fully vowelled. "ke" is "kaa" in its plural and oblique case form. "keh" could be the imperative of "kehnaa" although I write it as "kah".

    As for "kih" meaning "small", in this day and age I doubt if many Urdu speakers and indeed even Persian speakers would be familiar with this meaning. Besides, in "maiN ne kahaa hai kih..", it would never imply "small".
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Thank you, Faylasoof SaaHib, for starting this thread. Hopefully Alfaaz SaaHib will be able to express his views to his heart's content here.

    As I said before, I try to emulate Urdu system of writing in my transliteration. It is true that I do not distinguish all the "s"s and the "z"s but as a practitioner of Urdu, I know which s or z is representing the actual letter in the Urdu alphabet.

    "kih" is the way it is in Urdu, if it were fully vowelled. "ke" is "kaa" in its plural and oblique case form. "keh" could be the imperative of "kehnaa" although I write it as "kah".

    As for "kih" meaning "small", in this day and age I doubt if many Urdu speakers and indeed even Persian speakers would be familiar with this meaning. Besides, in "maiN ne kahaa hai kih..", it would never imply "small".
    Welcome QP SaaHib! As for "maiN ne kahaa hai kih", we agree that your "kih" = my "keh" is pronounced as you said earleir:

    Firstly, Urdu speakers don't pronounce the last part as "ki" but more like "ke". I think there is a difference in usage.
    .....
    So there shouldn't be any confusion between "kih" and "keh" usage we are discussing here.

    I look foward to the views of Alfaaz SaaHib and others on this.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I have expressed my opinion in the other thread so only a brief summary ought to be given here, that is I changed the keh transliteration to kih, because of possible confusion.

    I agree with Faylasoof SaaHib that the fact of the existence of the adjective ''kih'' deserves to be mentioned. The problem is that in both Persian and Urdu, the particle کہ and the adjective which has been mentioned کہ are if not homonyms then at least homographs.

    My experience tells me that numerous Urdu users have difficulty in differentiating between the particle کہ and the postposition کے, producing میں نے کہا کے on paper. This also led me to change my mind.

    QP SaaHib, re. ''kah''. Shouldn't it be kahh?
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    My experience tells me that numerous Urdu users have difficulty in differentiating between the particle کہ and the postposition کے, producing میں نے کہا کے on paper. This also led me to change my mind. [/COLOR]

    QP SaaHib, re. ''kah''. Shouldn't it be kahh?
    A good point well made!

    I don't believe we need to double the "h"? What makes you think it ought to be doubled?

    Edit: After seeing your editing, I think I know what you mean. "kah" is normally written as کہہ but, strictly speaking it should be witten as with a zabar on the kaaf, کہ or که
     
    Last edited:

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    A good point well made!

    I don't believe we need to double the "h"? What makes you think it ought to be doubled?

    Edit: After seeing your editing, I think I know what you mean. "kah" is normally written as کہہ but, strictly speaking it should be witten as with a zabar on the kaaf, کہ or که
    Thanks for this but it is the sad truth.

    I'm glad my editing has contributed to your understanding of what I was trying to say but I must say it is quite unexpected and surprising!

    Editing the message by me was only meant to replace the final duchashmii he which I had typed yesterday but didn't suspect that it were to show up in the forum font as کھ. On my screen it appeared as کھ.

    You are right, it was what I was hinting at. Shouldn't the transliteration represent کہہ's final double he if we stick to the Urdu script?
     
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