Urdu - Persian: 'Ishq shava mushq shava xushaamdeed e marHaba

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by urdustan, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. urdustan Member

    Urdu & English
    Do the above lyrics qualify as Urdu or are they more the domain of Persian? What do they mean? Thank you!
  2. Alfaaz Senior Member

    3ishq: عشق (derived from Arabic): used extensively in Urdu
    mushk: مشک (derived from Farsi): used extensively in Urdu
    xush-aamadeed: خوش آمدید (derived from Farsi): used extensively in Urdu
    marHabaa: مرحبا (derived from Arabic): used frequently in Urdu

    You will most likely be familiar with all of the above (since you have Urdu listed as one of your native language) and would also know that a plethora of examples from literature and songs could be cited for each word!

    shava seems to be a possible source of confusion (on various lyrics sites, etc.):
    • Some suggest that this is a modified pronunciation of shaawa from Punjabi...similar to bale bale!
    • Some suggest that this is "an Urdu/Persian word meaning cure"
      • Others add that it might be an echo word from "dawaa-shawaa"
    • Some suggest that this is a Farsi/Dari word meaning "to happen - ho jaa'e"
    Let's see what other forum members suggest!
  3. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Well, the song is a from a Hindi film. I don't know if any of our Hindi speaking friends can shed some light on the lyric writer (Gulzar)'s mindset.

    The answer to your first question is yes. For the second, here is one possible explanation . I might return to this later.

    pyaar bhaTak hai rahaa (Love is wandering)
    mushk bikhar hai rahaa (Musk is drifting)
    xushaamaded marHabaa (Welcome, welcome)
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  4. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    From my understanding, shava here atleast is moreso referring to a cure since Shahrukh is expressing his affection for Katrina and the spontaneous nature of love. Perhaps shava has something to do with shifa?

    The alternative to Bale Bale is Shaava Shaava the 'a' sound in that is extended. Hope that helps
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2014
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ I thought "bale bale" means "slowly/gently". And you are right the Panjabi word is "shaavaa". Persian word for "cure" that I am aware of is "darmaan". I don't know how "shavaa" would fit into "cure".
  6. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I'm sure you are correct on this with your attachment to vital details. I think Alfaaz meant to write balle-balle, with a geminated ''laam'' (with tashdiid). It would then be similar to the function of shaavaa, but I'm of course not sure of it. Just speculation.
  7. Alfaaz Senior Member

    Yes, it is supposed to be balle balle! (Copy-pasted the different suggestions while going through various websites/comments on the lyrics and didn't notice the typo.) Apart from this, do you have any comments on shava as used in the lyrics?

    There is another typo: language
    Qureshpor SaaHib, could you shed some light upon this interpretation and usage?
  8. urdustan Member

    Urdu & English
    "shavaa" is what confused me most too. Lyrics sites translate it as "cure" but I don't think that can be right. "shifaa" (or "shafaa") is the closest word meaning "cure".
  9. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    And you would agree if "shifaa/shafaa" was meant, then there would be no need to write (and sing) "shavaa". Please note that at no time do either of the two singers utter the Panajbi word "shaavaa". I have n't got a clue why the various sites on the net are going for "cure". If 3ishq is a cure, then is musk also a cure? Normally, in Urdu poetry, 3ishq is not a cure but a disease (maraz/rog)!

    Frankly, I have not come across this word before and as there has been no response from any Persian or Hindi speakers, I suspect they have n't heard it either. I would not class Gulzar's creation a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination.

    One dictionary gives شوا as a corrupted form of نا شنوا ultimately meaning "deaf". This meaning to my mind does not quite fit 3ishq and mushk. Love can be blind or even deaf but can musk be deaf too?

    Another dictionary gives the meaning of بے راہ شوا as "wandering" and "straying". I thought Gulzar might have had this in mind. It's all conjecture, I am afraid.

    Now, تیرے کلیجے نوں لونڑ لا کے کھاواں۔۔۔...any views?
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2013
  10. urdustan Member

    Urdu & English
    I do agree. "Cure" doesn't make sense to me!

    This could be it. I also like Alfaaz SaaHeb's suggestion of an echo word.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2013
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I very much doubt it. If this were so, from an Urdu perspective we would have 3ishq/vishq, mushk/vushk and from a Punjabi point of view...3ishq/shishq, mushk/shushk!
  12. mundiya Senior Member

    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    I agree with you Quresh SaaHib that "shavaa" is most likely derived from a Persian word and the meanings you suggested (drifting/wandering) seem appropriate for the context. I guess it's a newcomer to Hindi films because I have never heard it used before.
  13. desi4life Senior Member


    I found these entries in a Farsi dictionary.

    shawā, Existing; deaf

    shav, shū (imp. of shudan), Be, exist; be thou; (in comp.) being, existing

    So, "ishq shavaa mushk shavaa" would mean "love exists, fragrance exists." Any thoughts on this interpretation? Is it valid?

    Are shawaa/shav present in both types of Farsi (Classical & Modern) and in Urdu?

  14. mundiya Senior Member

    Hindi, English, Punjabi
    ^ The interpretation seems valid to me. Let's see what Urdu and Farsi speakers think.
  15. desi4life Senior Member

    Thank you, mundiya. I hope Urdu speakers can provide their thoughts about this too.
  16. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ I have seen the entry from Steingass that you quoted in post 13. Frankly, I fail to see how "shav-aa" from "shudan" (to become/to go" (on the pattern of daan-aa, from daanistan to know) can imply "existing". I am not aware of the existence of "shavaa" in Urdu. If there is anyone who lives close to Mr. Gulzar, it would be nice if he could be asked the source of his inspiration.
  17. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    Perhaps the better question here is does such a connotation exist in farsi, so that we can puzzle out the validity of the claim. For this reason I believe the forum should be inclusive of both Persian and Urdu.
  18. desi4life Senior Member

    Thank you, Qureshpor. What would be the correct definition of "shavaa" if the definition of "existing" provided by Steingass is wrong?
  19. desi4life Senior Member

    I agree. I welcome responses to my queries from Persian speakers in addition to Urdu speakers and anyone else who wants to give their input.

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