Urdu: pistol/revolver

Chhaatr

Senior Member
Hindi
As a Hindi speaker from Lucknow I am used to saying and hearing tamanchaa and kaTTaa for pistol/revolver (country made weapon) while conversing with friends.

As an Urdu speaker what words do you use to mean pistol/revolver. Are any distinctions made between the branded ones and the ones locally made by anti social elements?

While my question is primarily addressed to Urdu speakers, I welcome contributions from Hindi speaking friends too to see if they use words other than the ones I have listed above.

Many thanks!
 
  • marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    For Urdu I have a double surprise for you - I don't know if the first one is going to be a new thing but since you have not mentioned it, it is possible!

    We say pistaul for a pistol/revolver, tamaNchah is also used. Here is the second part of the surprise.
    Although I'm familiar with the word ''kaTTaa'', I don't use or hear it used in the sense of a pistol. We use it, also amongst friends (=colloquial) when purported anger is expressed: ''teraa kaTTaa kar duuN gaa maiN!''.
    English words like ''gun'', ''pistol'' and ''revolver'' are also much used.
     
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    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    پستول - pistaul seems to be the most common word.

    There is also طبنچہ - tabanchah, طمنچه - tamanchah, تپنچہ - tapanchah, طپانچہ - tapaanchah, etc. (from either Turkish and/or Persian - according to Platts).
    • As you can see in both Urdu Lughat and Platts, a variety of different spellings are listed.
    Based on media portrayals: In slang, it seems گھوڑا - ghoRaa is sometimes also used to refer to pistols/guns/etc. even though the dictionary definition (#2) describes it as a specific part.

    (Note: There is no intention of misquoting! It is possible that the information given in the program and summarized below wasn't understood and/or recalled properly!)**

    In a television program, مسدس - musaddas was mentioned for revolver. It was said that most revolvers contain six chambers, hence this word was used. Further, it was even suggested that the usage of banduuq for gun is a ghalat-ul-3aam for the following reasons:

    • ب پر پیش ہے، زبر نہیں
    • بندوق در اصل گولی کو یا اس کے خول کو کہتے ہیں
    Platt lists it as banduuq, possibly derived from bunduq (meaning bullet, ball) - related to funduq (nut, etc.). It could be that the host misinterpreted this (banduuq vs. bunduq) or I misinterpreted the information presented!** :)

    It would be interesting to see forum members' views on this!
     
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    Dib

    Senior Member
    Bengali (India)
    That Platts entry on banduuq is surprising. It says:
    (from بندق bunduq, 'bullet,' 'ball,' the Arabicized form of the Persian funduq)

    How come a Persian word has a q? If not Arabic, it must be Turkic then, though I can find no matching Turkish word in dictionary.

    ---

    Interestingly, urduencyclopedia entry has tibanchah, not tabanchah!!

    ---

    I just checked a Turkish (of Turkey) dictionary. They also have "tabanca" (c is pronounced like our j).
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    [...]Based on media portrayals: In slang, it seems گھوڑا - ghoRaa is sometimes also used to refer to pistols/guns/etc. even though the dictionary definition (#2) describes it as a specific part.

    (Note: There is no intention of misquoting! It is possible that the information given in the program and summarized below wasn't understood and/or recalled properly!)**

    In a television program, مسدس - musaddas was mentioned for revolver. It was said that most revolvers contain six chambers, hence this word was used. Further, it was even suggested that the usage of banduuq for gun is a ghalat-ul-3aam for the following reasons:

    • ب پر پیش ہے، زبر نہیں
    • بندوق در اصل گولی کو یا اس کے خول کو کہتے ہیں
    Platt lists it as banduuq, possibly derived from bunduq (meaning bullet, ball) - related to funduq (nut, etc.). It could be that the host misinterpreted this (banduuq vs. bunduq) or I misinterpreted the information presented!** :)

    It would be interesting to see forum members' views on this!
    You are right, it is slang for a pistol/gun at least in Karachi and is used quite often, but it is slang.
    This is ludicrous - musaddas is a well-established literary term for Urdu poetry consisting of six-versed stanzas, as especially in marsiyas (مرثیہ)!! Now way it can be used for a revolver!!! If one wishes to delve on it, one can say: shash-zarbii pistaul along with chhih-faayar (fire) waalaa, chhih shaaT (shot) waalaa.
    My view is that banduuq for a gun cannot be wrong or Ghalatu_l3aam or even Ghalatu_l3awaam and this is the reason:

    Persian dictionary (Steingass):بندوق bundūq, A musket.
    Loghatnameh Dehkhoda:
    بندوق [بُ، بَ]: تفنگ. و این مأخوذ از بندق است که بضم اول و ثالث باشد و در عربی بمعنی غلوله باشد چون از تفنگ گلوله ٔ آهن یا سرب می اندازند، لهذا مجازاً تفنگ

    را گویند که آلت انداختن است . بندق نیز گفته اند
    . (غیاث ) (آنندراج ). بندق . تفنگ . ج ، بنادیق . (فرهنگ فارسی معین ). تفنگ . ج ، بنادیق . (ناظم الاطباء)۔

    Rough translation: bunduuq, banduuq: a musket and it is derived from bunduq which has -u- (pesh) on the first and second (letter) and has the meaning of a ball/bullet in Arabic and because a bullet of iron or lead is fired from a musket, a musket [itself] is therefore figuratively called so, as it is a firing tool. Also called bunduq.
     

    Treaty

    Senior Member
    Persian
    That Platts entry on banduuq is surprising. It says:
    (from بندق bunduq, 'bullet,' 'ball,' the Arabicized form of the Persian funduq)

    How come a Persian word has a q? If not Arabic, it must be Turkic then, though I can find no matching Turkish word in dictionary.

    There are a lot of Persian words with q, especially as the final letter. They were either written under the influence of Aramaic, Arabic or Turkish or re-borrowed from them; or might have been originally (or locally) pronounced closer to q than k or g.

    You are right, it is slang for a pistol/gun at least in Karachi and is used quite often, but it is slang.
    This is ludicrous - musaddas is a well-established literary term for Urdu poetry consisting of six-versed stanzas, as especially in marsiyas (مرثیہ)!! Now way it can be used for a revolver!!! If one wishes to delve on it, one can say: shash-zarbii pistaul along with chhih-faayar (fire) waalaa, chhih shaaT (shot) waalaa.
    My view is that banduuq for a gun cannot be wrong or Ghalatu_l3aam or even Ghalatu_l3awaam and this is the reason:

    Musaddas is actually an Arabic word for pistol (called شش لول shish-luul in Persian). Maybe it's a very recent loanword from Arabic.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Hindi mein, Chhatri jii, jaise ki Alfaaz jii zikr kar hii chuke hain, ham bandook/pistaul/tamanche ki trigger ke liye "ghoRaa" ka istemaal bhi karte hain: aapne "ghoRaa dabaa doongaa" to suna hi hogaa. Lekin maine kabhi is shabd ko purii pistaul ke sandarbh mein nahin sunaa, par aisaa ho zaroor saktaa hai.
     

    Chhaatr

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Thanks everyone!

    marrish SaaHib aap ke duusre surprise kii duusrii headline waaqa3ii surprising hai but could not follow rest of it as the font was too small.
     
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    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Thanks everyone!

    marrish SaaHib aap ke duusre surprise kii duusrii headline waaqa3ii surprising hai but could not follow rest of it as the font was too small.
    You're most welcome. I have replaced the surprise for better readability. You can right-click on the picture and choose the option ''view: large''. I hope you can read it now.

    As you see from the first headline and text, the word ''pistaul'' was used for a revolver. You will also find 'chhih fair waalaa' there.
    Also ''ghoRaa'' is there in the original sense.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    As a Hindi speaker from Lucknow I am used to saying and hearing tamanchaa and kaTTaa for pistol/revolver (country made weapon) while conversing with friends.

    As an Urdu speaker what words do you use to mean pistol/revolver. Are any distinctions made between the branded ones and the ones locally made by anti social elements?

    While my question is primarily addressed to Urdu speakers, I welcome contributions from Hindi speaking friends too to see if they use words other than the ones I have listed above.

    Many thanks!
    Chhaatr SaaHib, as an Urdu speaker from Lucknow we say tapanchah (from Turkish) / pistaul (from English) = pistol / handgun /revolver. Of course the word riwaalwar (revolver) is used as well amongst Urdu speakers now. Interestingly, we never use kaTTaa!
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    ^I've believed pistaul to come from Portuguese, not from English, but English is equally possible.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    ...
    Musaddas is actually an Arabic word for pistol (called شش لول shish-luul in Persian). Maybe it's a very recent loanword from Arabic.
    Yes, exactly! However, in Urdu it has a different meaning altogether as marrish SaaHib explains above.
    Due to many South Asians having worked in Arab countires it is not surprising that they are bringing words of Arabic usage into Urdu! But I must say musaddas as a revolver I find funny in Urdu because of the much older history of the original Urdu usage of musaddas, i.e. a genre of poetry because it contains sextains (a stanza of six lines, as opposed to a muxammas [5], a murabba3 [4] and a muthallath [3]). The word musaddas is of course derived from the Arabic verb saddasa = to make / turn something six / do or be six times. For this reason, musaddas in Arabic also refers to a hexagon / something being haxagonal. Some might prefer to use the feminine form musaddasah = pistol / hand gun, in Arabic. But the use of either in Urdu sounds quite funny.
     
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    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    ^I've believed pistaul to come from Portuguese, not from English, but English is equally possible.
    Perhaps we should look this up just for interest.

    Platts has this:

    H پسطول pistol, pistūl (from the Eng. or the Port.), s.m. A pistol.

    Interesting that he gives the Urdu spelling with a ط and not a ت !


    BTW, he also has this: T تمنچه tamanća, s.m. A pistol (=tabanća) , and our pronunciation of tapanchah is closer to this one.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Thanks, I hadn't looked it up. Yes, not only ط is interesting but also [-o-] or [-uu-]! For me there ought to be a clear diphthong.

    Alfaaz Sb has included your tapanchah in post #3 so I imagine he must have found it somewhere in Platts. What I know is tamaNchah but tapanchah or tabanchah is not something that I would not be able to understand.

    More to that, the Farhang has this definition in which tapanchah (and tamaNchah) and a diphthong is used! There is no ط.
    پِستَوْل ۔ اِنگلش پسٹل، اِسمِ مذکر۔ تپنچہ، تفنگچہ، بہت چھوٹا سا تپنچہ، تمنچہ۔
    pistaul: English Pistol, pisTal, ism-e-muzakkar- tapanchah, tufaNgchah, bahut chhoTaa saa tapanchah, tamaNchah.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi

    ...
    Based on media portrayals: In slang, it seems گھوڑا - ghoRaa is sometimes also used to refer to pistols/guns/etc. even though the dictionary definition (#2) describes it as a specific part.
    ...

    (Note: There is no intention of misquoting! It is possible that the information given in the program and summarized below wasn't understood and/or recalled properly!)**

    In a television program, مسدس - musaddas was mentioned for revolver. It was said that most revolvers contain six chambers, hence this word was used. Further, it was even suggested that the usage of banduuq for gun is a ghalat-ul-3aam for the following reasons:

    • ب پر پیش ہے، زبر نہیں
    • بندوق در اصل گولی کو یا اس کے خول کو کہتے ہیں
    Platt lists it as banduuq, possibly derived from bunduq (meaning bullet, ball) - related to funduq (nut, etc.). It could be that the host misinterpreted this (banduuq vs. bunduq) or I misinterpreted the information presented!** :)

    It would be interesting to see forum members' views on this!
    Since marrish SaaHib has already elaborated on the bunduuq / banduuq issue I needn't add more than just mention that we pronounce it as banduuq and so shall it remain.

    I think the musaddas issue too have been dealt thoroughly by three forum members at least, including yours truly, with added explanation. As to the use of ghoRaa for a handgun / pistol / revolver? I think we can all agree that in standard Urdu it just wouldn't do as it refers to the hammer. Given this trend one day we'll hear the word lablabii for a gun! In our Urdu usage it actually means trigger!
     
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    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Thanks, I hadn't looked it up. Yes, not only ط is interesting but also [-o-] or [-uu-]! For me there ought to be a clear diphthong.

    Alfaaz Sb has included your tapanchah in post #3 so I imagine he must have found it somewhere in Platts. What I know is tamaNchah but tapanchah or tabanchah is not something that I would not be able to understand.

    More to that, the Farhang has this definition in which tapanchah (and tamaNchah) and a diphthong is used! There is no ط.
    پِستَوْل ۔ اِنگلش پسٹل، اِسمِ مذکر۔ تپنچہ، تفنگچہ، بہت چھوٹا سا تپنچہ، تمنچہ۔
    pistaul: English Pistol, pisTal, ism-e-muzakkar- tapanchah, tufaNgchah, bahut chhoTaa saa tapanchah, tamaNchah.
    I hadn't seen Alfaaz SaaHib's post - at least not in full! But yes we always say tapanchah and I agree that it is pistaul (as I have it in my post # 10, above), i.e. a clear dpihthong! .... and we too treat is as muzakkar!
     

    Dib

    Senior Member
    Bengali (India)
    ^I've believed pistaul to come from Portuguese, not from English, but English is equally possible.

    Right. Given the dental t, a Portuguese source is more likely. It's dental in Bengali too.

    But I must say musaddas as a revolver I find funny in Urdu because of the much older history of the original Urdu usage of musaddas, i.e. a genre of poetry because it contains sextains (a stanza of six lines, as opposed to a muxammas [5], a murabba3 [4] and a muthallath [3]).

    ... and murabba3 (or rather, "morobba" in Bengali pronunciation) for me is a sweet pickle of cubes of green mango. :D
     

    Chhaatr

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    You're most welcome. I have replaced the surprise for better readability. You can right-click on the picture and choose the option ''view: large''. I hope you can read it now.

    As you see from the first headline and text, the word ''pistaul'' was used for a revolver. You will also find 'chhih fair waalaa' there.
    Also ''ghoRaa'' is there in the original sense.

    bahut, bahut shukriyah dost. The surprise is bigger and better now! :D

    Interestingly, we never use kaTTaa!

    Thank you for this Faylasoof SaaHib, looks like this usage in prevalent in Hindi alone.
     

    desi4life

    Senior Member
    English
    The pitol is in urdu, the katta is in hindi i know these words in 2:languages
    “pistaul” is used in both Urdu and Hindi, but “kaTTaa” is used only in Hindi (regional or slang Hindi, as the pistol meaning of “kaTTaa” is not found in standard Hindi dictionaries).
     
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