Urdu/Punjabi: What kind of accent has /s/ ellipsis?

lcfatima

Senior Member
English USA
There are some people who have a type of accent in their Urdu, I believe they are Punjabiphones, and they sometimes drop /s/ in certain places. Like they say masjid as majjid (have heard this widely) and ao mere paas as ao mere paa'. What type of accent is this and what is the underlying reason behind the drop?
 
  • marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Unfortunately it will not help but there are many different styles of Punjabi where different sound or syllables are dropped. I can't help with Urdu either since I'm not familiar with the described phenomenon.
     

    UrduMedium

    Senior Member
    Urdu (Karachi)
    I have not come across majjid much but have noticed many Urdu-speakers say the word as mazzid. In everyday talk with some speed, not in formal speech.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Re: the thread's title, I'm positive you'd meant 'ellision'. I believe the underlying reason behind it is on the same lines as why it occurs in English. But don't ask me what it might be but I don't mind learning about it myself!
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    There are some people who have a type of accent in their Urdu, I believe they are Punjabiphones, and they sometimes drop /s/ in certain places. Like they say masjid as majjid (have heard this widely) and ao mere paas as ao mere paa'. What type of accent is this and what is the underlying reason behind the drop?

    If you believe you have heard this dropping of "s" amongst Punjabiphones and that too widely, then you would have a good idea of the localities where you have encountered this, be they geographical, with in the family or perhaps in the media. Punjab is a large area spanning both sides of the border and it would n't surprise me if some people do speak in this manner. So, it would help us to narrow down your search if you provided a few more clues if possible.

    If it is not too rude to ask, may I ask which linguistic background you belong to, in addition to American English?
     

    lcfatima

    Senior Member
    English USA
    Thanks Marrish, my mistake, it must be ellision.

    Sorry, I can't be specific as to where the speakers with whom I observed this phenomenon are from (I do realize that Punjab is extremely linguistically diverse). A lot of my regular experience with Urdu speakers is from my years living in the Arabian Peninsula in a diasporic context and not in a specific locale in Punjab.

    Majjid seems common enough (can't say that it is limited to a Punjabi accent either). I haven't heard mazzid. Just wondering if the /s/ ellision could be pin pointed as it is something I had observed.

    QP: No that's not rude, my native language is a US dialect of English.
     

    hindiurdu

    Senior Member
    Hindi-Urdu, Punjabi, Kashmiri
    I will hazard a guess here. Punjabi does have a moderate s → h tendency like many other Northern IndoAryan languages (including Sanskrit btw, so this is a very ancient and constant move). Paise → Paihe. Usda → Ohda. Jaisa → Jiha. It also has a de-aspiration tendency. You might be hearing masjid → mahjid with the 'h' not being aspirated completely and replaced by a tone which is the classic Punjabi thing to do (horse/ghoṛa → koṛa, with a tone) - I have definitely heard mahjid from Punjabis. There is also a gemination tendency. Janm/Janam → Jamm ('tu kitthon jamm peya?'). If you hear mahjjid at speed, it will sound like majjid - I'll bet you that you heard a Punjabi tone/stress ma*jjid where the asterisk is. Some people also say a complicated 'mahsjid/mhasjid' type thing btw (not just Punjabis). This is all very colloquial and I don't think you'll see it in any books.
     
    Last edited:

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Sorry, I can't be specific as to where the speakers with whom I observed this phenomenon are from (I do realize that Punjab is extremely linguistically diverse). A lot of my regular experience with Urdu speakers is from my years living in the Arabian Peninsula in a diasporic context and not in a specific locale in Punjab.

    Majjid seems common enough (can't say that it is limited to a Punjabi accent either). I haven't heard mazzid. Just wondering if the /s/ ellision could be pin pointed as it is something I had observed.

    QP: No that's not rude, my native language is a US dialect of English.

    Thanks. Regarding the last point I did say,"..which linguistic background you belong to, in addition to American English?".
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I will hazard a guess here. Punjabi does have a moderate s → h tendency like many other Northern IndoAryan languages (including Sanskrit btw, so this is a very ancient and constant move). Paise → Paihe. Usda → Ohda. Jaisa → Jiha. It also has a de-aspiration tendency. You might be hearing masjid → mahjid with the 'h' not being aspirated completely and replaced by a tone which is the classic Punjabi thing to do (horse/ghoṛa → koṛa, with a tone) - I have definitely heard mahjid from Punjabis. There is also a gemination tendency. Janm/Janam → Jamm ('tu kitthon jamm peya?'). If you hear mahjjid at speed, it will sound like majjid - I'll bet you that you heard a Punjabi tone/stress ma*jjid where the asterisk is. Some people also say a complicated 'mahsjid/mhasjid' type thing btw (not just Punjabis). This is all very colloquial and I don't think you'll see it in any books.

    Regarding the specific example of "paise", I have heard something more akin to "paixe" than "paihe".
     

    hindiurdu

    Senior Member
    Hindi-Urdu, Punjabi, Kashmiri
    Regarding the specific example of "paise", I have heard something more akin to "paixe" than "paihe".

    Yes, I hear that too. Both exist. In fact, some speakers (for some reason I am visualizing guys sitting on motorbikes here) also kinda say 'jixe' instead of 'jihe' ('os jixe bande noon tan .....'). Not a total x, but more x than h. However, in my relatives, jaise → jahe → ja'e.
     
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