Urdu: <xāb> plural

  • lcfatima

    Senior Member
    English USA
    I have observed people using khaab as both the plural and singular, e.g. "mai.n aajkal bahut se khaab dekh rahi hoo.n," but I have noticed that it is inflected in the plural before a post position "mere khaabo.n mei.n..."
     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    I have also heard that. In standard Hindi, <xāb> would be unchangeable in the singular and plural, and would number would only be differentiated in the oblique, as you state.

    I'm interested to know if Urdu has some irregular plural, following the pattern of <savāl>/<savālāt>.
     

    Cilquiestsuens

    Senior Member
    French
    xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis :)

    Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...

    Mai.n ne pichle dino.n me.n bohot kh(w)aabe.n dekhi hai.n.....

    But in Urdu it is masculine.

    As for the plural, it is a Persian word, so it can't follow the pattern of Arabic words such as su'aal or jawaab...
     

    BP.

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    Well, khaab does have a feminin form too - when it is used as a synonym to sleep e.g. in meHv-e-khaab hona: محو خواب ھونا. Comes from khaabeedan: خوابیدن. See the couplet:
    یہ بھی نالے کا طرز ہے قائم
    خواب اک خلق پر حرام ہوئی

    Plural...am stumped as usual. Maybe it could be akhwaab: اخواب.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    The plural of خواب xāb is just that, whether you have one or more.

    In its normal use it was treated as a masculine in both the Lucknow & Delhi dialects of Urdu.

    BP, axwāb sounds lovely. Pity it doesn't exist. It can't as you
    yourself point out that it is derived from the Persian خوابیدن, where the broken plural doesn't apply.
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Or perhaps <xāwāib>!!

    Well, it can be fun to do this. We certainly did in our school but now only if we have time to spare and perhaps by PM.
     

    Cilquiestsuens

    Senior Member
    French
    Well, if we are to arabize plurals of non-Arabic words in Urdu, I vote for

    axwibah (jawaab > ajwibah) .,
     
    Last edited:

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    When I said above <The plural of خواب xāb is just that..>, I'm only talking about the nominative form. For the dative and genitive cases of course we do use the standard Prakrit-based plural < xābo.n> e.g. << xābo.n ki dunyā>> ; << xābo.n mei.n>> etc.

    …and as for the plurals, ajwibah & as'ilah – standard Arabic broken plurals – though commonly used in Arabic speech and writing are not so in Urdu. Higher prose writing and speech does use them but more commonly one hears <jawābāt & su’ālāt / sawālāt>.

     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    Well, khaab does have a feminin form too - when it is used as a synonym to sleep e.g. in meHv-e-khaab hona: محو خواب ھونا. Comes from khaabeedan: خوابیدن. See the couplet:
    یہ بھی نالے کا طرز ہے قائم
    خواب اک خلق پر حرام ہوئی

    Plural...am stumped as usual. Maybe it could be akhwaab: اخواب.
    Would <meHv> mean absorbed in engrossed in here? So "engrossed in sleep," perhaps?
     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Ah! here <meHv محو> means <lost>.

    محو خواب ھونا = lost in sleep / sleep soundly.

    Of course محو also has the meanings you give . Here are the synonms:
    گُم gum / مَگَن magan / مَشْغُول mashghuul / مُسْتَغْرَق mustaghraq

     

    Faylasoof

    Senior Member
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Am I the only one who tends to say khwaab and not khaab??

    No! There are many who say khwaab / xwaab but the standard Urdu (and Persian) pronunciation is khaab / xaab, just like it is xaahish / khaahish and not xwaahish / khwaahish.


    Of course both have a و in the second position but that is not pronounced even though many of us include it in the transliteration for the sake of accuracy!
     

    Koozagar

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis :)

    Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...


    I would agree that the usage of xaab as feminine is common. It would interesting to investigate how these gender mutations occur in words. Is there a word in Punjabi khalis for xaab that is feminine?
     

    panjabigator

    Senior Member
    Am. English
    xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis :)

    Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...


    I would agree that the usage of xaab as feminine is common. It would interesting to investigate how these gender mutations occur in words. Is there a word in Punjabi khalis for xaab that is feminine?
    I don't know if its khalis, but the Indian Punjabi word is <supnā> and it's masculine.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    The v/w in Khv/Khw is called vaa'o ma'duulah (the silent h). However, in Classical Persian it was not silent. Words like Khush/Khud/Khor were pronounced Khvash/Khvad/Khvar.

    mayaazaar more kih daanah-kash ast
    kih jaaN daarad-o-jaan-i-shiiriiN Khvash ast

    Molest not (even) an ant that toils to drag a grain
    For it too has life and this dear life is a blessing

    (I believe Sa'di is quoting Firdausi)
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    xaab as you spell it; another word ill-treated by Punjabis :)

    Many Punjabi people would make it feminine, even when speaking Urdu...


    I would agree that the usage of xaab as feminine is common. It would interesting to investigate how these gender mutations occur in words. Is there a word in Punjabi khalis for xaab that is feminine?
    I would suggest (guess?) that "sleep" (niiNdar) is feminine, just like niiNd is in Urdu. The equivalent Persian word has then been given the same gender in Punjabi for both of its meanings. jaate jaate...

    3ishq hamaare Khyaal paRaa hai Khvaab ga'ii aaraam gayaa
    jii kaa jaanaa Thahar rahaa hai SubH gayaa yaa shaam gayaa

    Mir

     
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