Usage on as ~ as here.

shiness

Senior Member
Korean, South Korea.
Like most of my generation, I enjoy looking back as much, if mot more than, as looking ahead.




Hi.

Do you see anything grammartically incorrect in the above quote?
For me, I don't, however, some of my fellow students claim that there might be something we don't detect yet.

I'd like to know if the sentence is perfectly right.
 
  • se16teddy

    Senior Member
    English - England
    The sentence is incorrect because the following sentence is incorrect: I enjoy looking back more than as looking ahead. Does this help to explain why the parallelism does not work?
     

    shiness

    Senior Member
    Korean, South Korea.
    Hmm.. I see. In the same sense, He is fully as tall, if not taller, as his brother, should contain something of an error right? that "He is fully as tall, if not taller, as his brother." is a given exmaple in my grammar book as a correct one. I'd like to know what you think on this..
     

    sound shift

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Hmm.. I see. In the same sense, He is fully as tall, if not taller, as his brother, should contain something of an error right? that "He is fully as tall, if not taller, as his brother." is a given exmaple in my grammar book as a correct one. I'd like to know what you think on this..
    I don't agree with your grammar book. The sentence needs to be He is fully as tall as, if not taller than, his brother.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    I think that if the middle clause were in brackets, there would be an argument for "as...as".

    He is fully as tall (if not taller) as his brother.


    Without the brackets, though, you must have "than" after the comparative, "taller".
     

    GreenWhiteBlue

    Senior Member
    USA - English
    I think that if the middle clause were in brackets, there would be an argument for "as...as".

    He is fully as tall (if not taller) as his brother.

    Without the brackets, though, you must have "than" after the comparative, "taller".
    If you want to do that, you need to move the phrase:

    He is fully as tall as his brother, if not taller.

    If the sentence is left in its current order, even with parentheses it would be incorrect: one cannot be taller as somebody else; "taller" is a comparative, and so requires "than".
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    But that's my point. I'm not mixing the two ideas. The statement in brackets is an aside.

    I do accept, however, that noone agrees with me!
     

    big_jock

    Member
    English - England
    I think that if the middle clause were in brackets, there would be an argument for "as...as".

    He is fully as tall (if not taller) as his brother.


    Without the brackets, though, you must have "than" after the comparative, "taller".
    Aside or no this doesn't work, the parenthetic clause needs to agree with the end of the sentence for it to work...taller as his brother is never right - brackets or no brackets.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I, too, disagree with you, Emma. (Sorry!)

    Just because something is in parentheses doesn't mean that you can place it anywhere in a sentence. In fact, I think that you should be able to remove the parentheses from any sentence and still have a logical sentence structure.

    In this particular case, I consider as tall as an inseparable unit that may as well be spelled astallas, so I do not consider it correct to insert anything within it, parentheses or not. You wouldn't utter the sequence as tall if not taller as in speech, so why would you write it that way?

    To make an analogy, I think writing the sentence you think is acceptable is like writing the following sentence:

    He is very fond (if not addicted to) of that game.

    It doesn't work because fond of is an inseparable unit. Such is the case with as tall as.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    It's not the same as ""He is very fond (if not addicted to) of that game". The two prepositions sound ridiculous next to eachother.

    Secondly, if "as tall as" is an inseparable unit, then the following sentences are wrong too:

    He is as tall (and I'm sure you'll agree) as his brother.
    He is as tall, and, incidentally, as handsome, as his brother.
    He is as tall (but not as clever) as his brother.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the sentences above.
     

    big_jock

    Member
    English - England
    It's not the same as ""He is very fond (if not addicted to) of that game". The two prepositions sound ridiculous next to eachother.

    Secondly, if "as tall as" is an inseparable unit, then the following sentences are wrong too:

    He is as tall (and I'm sure you'll agree) as his brother. :cross: [should be He is as tall as his brother, I'm sure you'll agree.]
    He is as tall, and, incidentally, as handsome, as his brother. :tick:
    He is as tall (but not as clever) as his brother. :tick:

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the sentences above.
    The two that work have an as..as unit at the end of the chain of them...

    In the same way that you can say:

    He is as tall, as fat, but not as politically moderate, as his brother
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    Whoops, I meant:"He is as tall (I'm sure you'll agree)...". I typed an extra "and".

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with "He is as tall (I'm sure you'll agree) as his brother". It's completely idiomatic. Imagine it in speech.
     

    big_jock

    Member
    English - England
    Whoops, I meant:"He is as tall (I'm sure you'll agree)...". I typed an extra "and".

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with "He is as tall (I'm sure you'll agree) as his brother". It's completely idiomatic. Imagine it in speech.
    But in speech I can imagine saying:

    I'm just gonna, umm you know, just uhh, just gonna see what happens.

    Which, without the hesitations and the colloquialism gonna, would be:

    I'm just going to, you know, just, just going to see what happens.

    But I'm not going to say that this is right.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    Why, what's wrong with it?

    Also, I maintain that my sentence is fine in writing. I just thought people might have a different perspective if they imagined it spoken. I was wrong!
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I agree with Big Jock that your second and third sentences are different from the first, because essentially the second as after as tall has been elided.

    Your first sentence is acceptable because I'm sure you'll agree is not syntactically connected to as tall as or the part that follows. It's one of those short independent clauses that are frequently inserted within sentences. Another example: My mother is not, I would like to add, willing to accept that offer. If not taller, however, is connected to his brother and breaks up as tall as in a way that I do not find acceptable.

    Don't you think that taller as sounds just as ridiculous as to of in my ridiculous sentence? I think that's the primary reason most of us are not happy with it.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    I absolutely see the logic of your argument in para 2, elroy. I agree that my sentence is not the most elegant. I am listening to what others are saying, but I still can't agree that it's wrong.
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    I'm sorry, M42, here's another vote against your sentence: it's the sequence "taller as" that I stumble on, and the brackets don't stop me trying to make that a collocation. I'm very happy with either He is fully as tall as his brother, if not taller or He is fully as tall as, if not taller than, his brother: I think I'd be more inclined to use the first of these in writing.

    Like most of my generation, I enjoy looking back as much, if mot more than, as looking ahead.
    Similarly, I think there are two ways to solve shiness' original problem:
    Like most of my generation, I enjoy looking back as much as looking ahead, if not more.
    Like most of my generation, I enjoy looking back as much as, if not more than, looking ahead (as per Cagey's post 4).

    Again, I'd be more likely to use the first in writing.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    Don't apologise. I realise that I am in a minority of one, and am really trying to see the error of my ways, but just can't.

    However, due to the united opposition against me, I will say that I would not advise a student to use this construction, as it is likely to be thought wrong by most!
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top