V-る vs V-ている

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adexx

Senior Member
Vietnamese
Hi,

Somehow I'm still confused between the use of dictionary form and progressive form of verbs when talking about general actions/habits. Which form should be used, or if both are OK, which sounds more natural?

E.g.
- よこその本屋に行くの。
- よくその本屋に行っているの。

- いつも買うブランドは今日もうなくなった。
- いつも買っているブランドは今日もうなかなった。

Tks
 
  • karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    - よくその本屋に行くの。
    - よくその本屋に行っているの。
    Both are fine.
    I think for a bookstore, よくその本屋に行くの is just enough, and よくその本屋に行っているの might slightly sound like you are going there really often as if you have decided to do so, and I might slightly wonder what for if I hear it from a friend.

    - いつも買うブランドは今日はもうなかった
    - いつも買っているブランドは今日はもうなかった
    いつも買うブランド、いつも買っているブランド、both are fine. Both mean just the same to me, and I do use both interchangeably.
     

    810senior

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    You can use either of them for your liking but I prefer よくその本屋に行くの and いつも買っているブランドは今日はもうなかった.
    So to speak the idea of each sentence indicates the same thing that the speaker used to go or buy it there, as habitually.
     

    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Using the present continuous in your examples (行っている・買っている) for general/habitual statement?
    It's not good, but understandable and common.
    よくその本屋に行っているの。 especially sounds odd to me, but the second one(ブランド) is okay, strengely.

    Is this not a matter of logic? Un, yes and no.

    adexx, see the first one is pure generalization but the second one involves the tense (the present perfect), and I thought this difference matters to your question..in generalization using the present continuous might be no good. But sorry I'm not sure very much.
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    I just remembered one occasion to say よくその本屋に行っているの. It would be an answer when you are asked such as "What are you doing after school? I've called you many times, but am never able to get you". It's because there's some length in time that it's suitable to use the continuous mood.

    But then, to say その本屋 also needs a certain reason. その本屋 means 'the bookstore'. It should be clear to the listener which bookstore you are talking about. In case that it's not clear, you should not say その. You can say ある本屋 if it's always the same one (but this sounds unusual like there's a little reason to it), or just 本屋 to mean any bookstore (this is most likely the best solution), or many expressions possible though like 近所の本屋, etc.
    Or あの本屋(例の本屋)is a good one if the listener and you have shared a story about it like the other day or at least a couple of hours ago.
     
    Last edited:

    adexx

    Senior Member
    Vietnamese
    Thank you all for your explanation.
    It seems progressive form is not always the good option, so should I always use the dictionary form?

    a) よくこその本屋に行くの。
    b) いつも買うブランドは今日もうなくなった。

    ...Maybe?
     

    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    It seems progressive form is not always the good option, so should I always use the dictionary form?
    a) よくそこの本屋に行くの。
    b) いつも買うブランドは今日もうなくなった。
    Yes they're much better!

    If you cut tense from a verb in a sentence, the verb is free from it (当たり前だけど). See いつも買うブランド doesn't strictly suggest when and what time: you're roughly suggesting you usually buy it only. Compare なくなった, which is the present perfect, focuses on and emphasises it has gone today.
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    a) よくこその本屋に行くの。
    b) いつも買うブランドは今日もうなくなった。
    To say a repeated action, yes, よくそ(こ)の本屋に行くの is perfect.

    Maybe it's easier for you to stick to simple present tense, but we often say いつも買うブランド and いつも買っているブランド interchangeably.

    Progressive Form is also used to say condition. -- We say 愛用の(favorite)ブランド/愛用するブランド/愛用しているブランド interchangeably.

    よく(その)本屋に行ってるの is also more of condition.
    A purely progressive example is 今そちらに行ってます(= 向っています= on the way to you = coming to you).


    And we usually say お店にはもうなかった or お店にはもうなくなってた. (condition)
    I'm not sure why is that, but these are the natural and common expressions.
    A store staff would say カツサンドは今日はもうなくなった. (event)
    Though there seems to be occasions that both work fine such as お米がなくなった[なかった]から買ってきた.
     

    adexx

    Senior Member
    Vietnamese
    Thank you,

    What about this one:
    - 毎日湖の周りを走る。
    - 毎日湖の周りを走っている。

    Also, these are some of the examples in a dictionary. I guess it'll sound OK if the verbs all switch to present tense?
    毎週月火はピアノ、水金はダンスを習っている。
    彼女は引退に備えて、毎月いくらかずつお金を蓄えている。
    やたらと食べるので毎月20ポンドずつ体重が増えている。
     

    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    - 毎日湖の周りを走っている。
    This is very okay and not a big error, but formally

    - 毎日湖の周りを走る。
    is better.

    I slightly sense a matter of collocation in the two.
    毎日 ~ている is really okay in speech and we say so. Although not defined formally, this combination has been acceptable. Mainichi means high oftenness, making us select the present continuous, I think.

    Then いつも買っているブランド? Strictly speaking, I'm sure you are not buying that brand always or all the time. lol
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    What about this one:
    - 毎日湖の周りを走る。
    - 毎日湖の周りを走っている。
    - 毎日湖の周りを走っている is the expression used more commonly.
    - 毎日湖の周りを走る is more concise and brisk, thus has a style.


    Also, these are some of the examples in a dictionary. I guess it'll sound OK if the verbs all switch to present tense?
    毎週月火はピアノ、水金はダンスを習っている。
    彼女は引退に備えて、毎月いくらかずつお金を蓄えている。
    やたらと食べるので毎月20ポンドずつ体重が増えている。
    These are definitely the expressions used more commonly. I would say they are condition as well as progressive.
    If you switch the verbs to 習う, 蓄える, 増える, they'll be more concise and brisk, thus has a style. You have to know what you are doing to use this style. It's a style suitable for a documentary.
     

    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    - 毎日湖の周りを走る。
    - 毎日湖の周りを走っている。
    The rule of the collocations of
    毎日~~している・する
    いつも~~している・する
    isn't strictly defined.

    Note that some verbs fit with the present continuous but some not, when they are used with those collocations.
    See:
    adexxはいつもインターネットを見ています。
    There is nothing weird, and I (freq) am pointing out your continuous action.

    In your brand's one, 買っている is the time you're buying something, isn't it? Therefore, いつも買う is better than いつも買っている.
    This kind of stuff similarly happens to English verbs.
     
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