Vengo llorado de casa

MonsieurGonzalito

Senior Member
Castellano de Argentina
Friends,

In Spain they have the expression: "Yo ya vengo llorado de casa", meaning, that all the necessary crying was already done at home (in the sense of not showing weakness in front of others).

Would "I came (already) cried from home" work?

My understanding is that there is a certain reluctance in English, to use intransitive verbs' participles as attributes.
 
  • MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    Would @S.V. ' s suggestion be valid?

    Rather than a translation, I am interested in whether or not is valid to use the participle cried intransitively in some way, in the same sense as in Spanish.
     

    Bevj

    Allegra Moderata (Sp/Eng, Cat)
    English (U.K.)
    'All cried out' is valid grammatically. It sounds a bit odd to my BrE ears but it is not incorrect.
    I can't think of any other way to use cried.
     

    Pokeflute

    Senior Member
    English - American
    "All cried out" a mí me suena muy mal. Hay verbos que permiten esta construcción (por ejemplo "all tired out" o "all wrung out") pero para mí "to cry" no es uno de ellos.

    Supongo que hay lugares donde se habla así pero yo no lo diría (como ya dijeron Bevj y los demás)

    EDIT: acabo de darme cuenta de que "to tire" y "to wring" son verbos transitivos (y "to cry" no lo es). Tal vez esto lo explica.

    Por ejemplo: "She was playing soccer and missed the big goal. Her coach was furious and started screaming at her. When she finally came home, all yelled out, she was not in the mood to talk."

    Aquí con "all yelled out" el entrenador (no la mujer) es el que regañó.
     
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    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    She's coming from home all cried out and ready to...
    "All cried out" is probably how I would express the idea of having cried so much that I can no longer shed any tears. It sounds perfectly natural in my English. However, it doesn't convey the nuance mentioned by the OP, of not showing your emotional weakness, and merely means that you can't cry anymore.

    M. Gonzalito, if you give us a full sentence with plenty of context, we can suggest translations that sound natural.

    Here's an example of how the above phrase might be used.

    -I'm so sorry to hear that your wife passed away.
    -Thanks.
    -You seem to be holding up very well.
    -It's just that I'm all cried out.
     

    Marsianitoh

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Spain
    I prefer Bevj's suggestion of "I did my crying at home", in my opinion, it keeps the tone of the original. "I shed my tears..." sounds more literary/pompous, like " derramé todas mis lágrimas en casa".
     
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    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    No. Intransitively.
    I'm confused.
    The intransitive use of "llorar" and "to cry" is the ordinary one ("Ayer lloré," "Yesterday I cried").
    What is unusual/interesting about your example, "Yo ya vengo llorado de casa," is that "llorado" here is the past participle of a transitive verb: si yo vengo llorado, es que algo o alguien me "lloró" (obviously that's not the literal meaning, but morphosyntactically it has to be analyzed as a transitive verb).
    So I thought your question was whether in English, we can similarly say that someone or something is "cried" (past participle of a transitive verb).
    If you're asking if "to cry" can be used intransitively, the answer is a clear yes since as I said that's the ordinary use of the verb.
     

    gato radioso

    Senior Member
    spanish-spain
    But I´d dear to suggest that the meaning of the Spanish expression is slightly different.
    When I say that, what I mean is I´m not so naive as you think...or I´m not a freshman here or Don´t you think you have to explain everything to me, I´m not a fool... something like that.
     

    Marsianitoh

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Spain
    But I´d dear to suggest that the meaning of the Spanish expression is slightly different.
    When I say that, what I mean is I´m not so naive as you think...or I´m not a freshman here or Don´t you think you have to explain everything to me, I´m not a fool... something like that.
    I've never heard that.
    Around here expressions like " vengo comido" ( I had lunch before coming here) or " vengo duchado del gimnasio" etc are quite common, I understand Gonzalito's sentence as a variation of that. For instance, one of my teachers at uni used to tell us before every exam that we were not allowed to go to the toilet because " a los examenes se viene cagado y meado".
     

    S.V.

    Senior Member
    Español, México
    I can't remember ever hearing this.
    Hola. Ves más ejemplos en 27.9 & 27.10. Llorado no es común acá, pero se entiende. Otros te serán naturales, como en #21.

    Puedes asociarlo con ese recién. Recién llegados ustedes y recién llorado vengo yo, de cortar cebollas. :p
     
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    Fernando

    Senior Member
    Spain, Spanish
    Note that "llorar" (cry) is also intransitive in Spanish and that you can not construct "comer" in the passive voice in first person (unless you are a cannibal of yourself).

    The expressions are NOT gramatically correct in Spanish in a strict point of view. They are (or began as) humoristic expressions. The expressions they come from are the (correct) "Por favor, venid lavados/duchados/vestidos/preparados, etc. de casa", which use reflexive verbs ("Yo me lavo/ducho/visto/preparo...").

    Even when I am an Spaniard, I would not expect them to be used outside Spain.
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    si yo vengo llorado, es que algo o alguien me "lloró"
    I could be wrong, but I interpret the Spanish to be an ellipsis of something like "vengo habiendo llorado de casa." If that's right, then the verb is still intransitive and therefore no outside agent is involved.
     

    gato radioso

    Senior Member
    spanish-spain
    I wasn’t born yesterday?
    Yes, it´s the same idea more or less. I´d say "No he nacido ayer" when someone clearly tries to deceive me. On the other hand, I´d say "Ya vengo llorado de casa" when facing a harsh situation on when someone tries to impress me exaggerating the difficulties or downsides of something.
     
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    Fernando

    Senior Member
    Spain, Spanish
    I could be wrong, but I interpret the Spanish to be an ellipsis of something like "vengo habiendo llorado de casa." If that's right, then the verb is still intransitive and therefore no outside agent is involved.
    The expression would be 'Vengo habiendo llorado EN casa' or, more clearly, 'Vengo de casa habiendo llorado ya'.

    I see no ellipsis anyway. It is a claque of the expression 'Vengo duchado de casa', with a verb which does not admit such a construction, and the speaker knows it and uses it as a joke.
     

    Marsianitoh

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Spain
    _ ¿Quieres que te guarde la cena?
    _ No, tranquila, vendré cenado.
    There's nothing wrong or humoristic about that dialogue. Mr Gonzalito is using de same construction in a somewhat odd context, but it's perfectly understandable ( I didn't bat an eye when I read it).
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    _ ¿Quieres que te guarde la cena?
    _ No, tranquila, vendré cenado.
    There's nothing wrong or humoristic about that dialogue. Mr Gonzalito is using de same construction in a somewhat odd context, but it's perfectly understandable ( I didn't bat an eye when I read it).
    And in that example, it seems to me like an ellipsis of "vendré habiendo cenado."

    But what do I know?
     

    gato radioso

    Senior Member
    spanish-spain
    And in that example, it seems to me like an ellipsis of "vendré habiendo cenado."

    But what do I know?
    Another option:
    ...vendré ya cenado

    When ya doesn´t mean "now", but implies an idea of conclusion, that something that have just finished.
     

    Fernando

    Senior Member
    Spain, Spanish
    _ ¿Quieres que te guarde la cena?
    _ No, tranquila, vendré cenado.
    There's nothing wrong or humoristic about that dialogue. Mr Gonzalito is using de same construction in a somewhat odd context, but it's perfectly understandable ( I didn't bat an eye when I read it).
    Of course I can understand what the speaker says when he says 'Vendré cenado', but the literal meaning would be 'I will come when others had eaten me as a dinner (main course, I guess)'.

    You 'can not' use it the same as you can not use 'Vendré leído' (some has read you?) or 'Vendré estudiado' or 'Vendré trabajado'.

    If you use it with a reflexive verb ('Vendré duchado') there are no possible interpretations.

    Only my perception.
     

    Marsianitoh

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Spain
    Of course I can understand what the speaker says when he says 'Vendré cenado', but the literal meaning would be 'I will come when others had eaten me as a dinner (main course, I guess).
    But the literal meaning being absurd, everyone understands the correct meaning. It's a widely used expression.
    I wouldn't find it odd to tell my students " Venid estudia(d)os al examen". And I wouldn't say " vendré leído" but if I say that my mum " es muy leída" everyone understands she's read a lot (unluckily she's not a best selling author), so there's some wriggle space when understanding the meaning of participles.
     

    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    The reason why I put is in the English thread, is just to ascertain to what degree an intransitive participle used attributively is acceptable to anglophones.

    It would seem that, in principle, straight intransitive participles are not palatable as atributes, to English speakers.
    But, once "colored", "softened" by some kind of attribute, they become a little less abrupt to their ears:

    we will vaccinate only the recently arrived
    I came all cried up from home
     

    DAlvarez

    Senior Member
    English and Spanish
    It is idiomatically acceptable to say in Spanish:

    Vendré...

    -cenado/comido/desayunado
    -duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado/masajeado
    -descansado/dormido
    -emperifollado [all dressed up]
    -apurado
    -quemado/reventado
    -puesto [high on drugs]
    -colocado [drunk]
    - etc etc
     

    Fernando

    Senior Member
    Spain, Spanish
    It is idiomatically acceptable to say in Spanish:

    Vendré...

    -cenado/comido/desayunado
    -duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado/masajeado
    -descansado/dormido
    -emperifollado [all dressed up]
    -apurado
    -quemado/reventado
    -puesto [high on drugs]
    -colocado [drunk]
    - etc etc
    Agreed, except, "Vendré dormido", which could mean either:

    - I will come after sleeping or I will come half-sleep, and I would say the second possibility is more often (Si quedamos el viernes, vendré dormido después de estar todo el día trabajando).

    I would consider "cenado/comido/desayunado" as colloquial and the same for "masajeado".

    "-duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado" are perfectly OK, in all registers and situations.

    The rest are perfectly OK (and come also from reflexive verbs), but works more often as simple adjectives.

    All
     

    DAlvarez

    Senior Member
    English and Spanish
    Agreed, except, "Vendré dormido", which could mean either:

    - I will come after sleeping or I will come half-sleep, and I would say the second possibility is more often (Si quedamos el viernes, vendré dormido después de estar todo el día trabajando).

    I would consider "cenado/comido/desayunado" as colloquial and the same for "masajeado".

    "-duchado/aseado/bañado/afeitado/maquillado/peinado/perfumado" are perfectly OK, in all registers and situations.

    The rest are perfectly OK (and come also from reflexive verbs), but works more often as simple adjectives.

    All
    Yes, it is true that some of this past participles act as adjectives in Spanish, such as colocado, emperifollado, puesto.
    As to the sample sentence that you have provided, I should think it is preferable to express it like this: Si quedamos el viernes, vendré medio dormido (= will arrive half-asleep after working all day), largely because Venir dormido essentially means -at least to me- to show up somewhere after getting some restful sleep, unless the person who may say Vengo dormido (= I haven't had a wink of sleep) is a sleepwalker who can move around and go to places while being sound asleep without running the risk of bumping into other people or being run over by a car.
     

    Richard Dick

    Senior Member
    Español - Mexico
    I could be wrong, but I interpret the Spanish to be an ellipsis of something like "vengo habiendo llorado de casa." If that's right, then the verb is still intransitive and therefore no outside agent is involved.
    "Vengo habiendo llorando", suena descabellado y awkard.
     
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