Venice

kusurija

Senior Member
Lithuania Czech
Hi, all there!
Maybe all gigger cities have different names in different languages, but one of most confusing is Venice (Eng.) = Venezia (It.) = Benátky (Cze.) ヴェネツィア (Jap.) Venediku (Shquip) and so on et cetera ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice ). I don't know, whether this theme was discussed yet?
But, as I took notice, in no more languages, only in Czech, the first "V" turns to "B" and the variace is the greatest. In other languages the names are more similar to - what - ?original? (And what is the original name: in Italian or in Venetian or...?)..So, what do You thing about it?:)
 
  • Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Hello, 薬屋さん :)

    An alternative Japanese name for the city is ヴェニス or ベニス (venisu / benisu), which is a loan from English. Whether one follows the Italian name or the English name, /ve/ is almost always pronounced /be/ since Japanese lacks the phoneme /v/.
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    The Portuguese name is Veneza. The city goes back to Roman times, so I guess the original name must have been Latin...
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Strangely enough in Polish the name is not as different.

    Wenecja, as we call it, looks like a transliteration of its Latin name -- Venetia.

    It seems that the Russians did the same as we, they call it Венеция.


    Tom
     

    irene.acler

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    The original name in Italian is Venezia.
    In Veneto (the dialect spoken in the region that takes the same name - Veneto -, where Venezia is located) they call it Venezsia.

    In Latin it's Venetiæ.
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    The original name in Italian is Venezia.
    In Veneto (the dialect spoken in the region that takes the same name - Veneto -, where Venezia is located) they call it Venezsia.
    Can you explain how the Veneto name is pronounced? How does it differ from the standard Italian pronunciation?
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    Strangely enough in Polish the name is not as different.

    Wenecja, as we call it, looks like a transliteration of its Latin name -- Venetia.

    It seems that the Russians did the same as we, they call it Венеция.

    Tom
    Confirmed, in Russian Венеция is pronounced as [v'en'etsiya] - v and n are palatalised, although in many foreign names consonant + Russian "e" are pronounced unpalatalised. "-ция" is pronounced as "-цыя" - "ц" is always hard.

    Chinese have borrowed from English Venice and adjusted to the Mandarin phonetic and writing system:
    威尼斯 Wēinísī

    In Arabic it's البندقية al-Bunduqīya. Like in Japanese, Arabic lacks "v" and "f" or "b" act as substitutes, although Vienna can be written both as فيينا and ۋيينا using Urdu "v" letter.
     

    kusurija

    Senior Member
    Lithuania Czech
    Thanks to all, who wrote or will write.
    So till now I realized, that languages, where name/pronunciation begins with "B" letter is: Czech, Japanese (Hi, Flaminius, 初めまして:)) and Arabian (Hi, Mars [Anatoli], how do you do).
     

    Henryk

    Senior Member
    Germany, German
    In Swedish it's Venedig.
    In German, too. However, I've also often come across "Venezia" though I think it's only understood by a small group of people in comparison to those who can't make use of that name.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    In Arabic it's البندقية al-Bunduqiyya. Like in Japanese, Arabic lacks "v" and "f" or "b" act as substitutes, although Vienna can be written both as فيينا and ڤيينا using Urdu "v" letter.
    A few slight corrections. :)
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    Thanks for the correction, Elias. I had some trouble finding the correct pronunciation for Venice but I don't see what's wrong with ۋيينا ? :)

    I actually see that your letters look slightly different but when I copy to a text editor - they look the same - isnt' it vaa' - yaa' - yaa' - nuun - alif?
     

    bibax

    Senior Member
    Czech (Prague)
    Another peculiarity: Benátky and Benetke are pluralia tantum and diminutives (hypothetical singular forms would be Benátka, Benetka). The suffix -ka (Czech/Slovak plural -ky, Slovenian plural -ke) is a common Slavic feminine (often diminutive) suffix.
     
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    Sardokan1.0

    Senior Member
    Sardu / Italianu
    The use of plural probably comes from the plural name "Le Venezie", used in the past to indicate the three regions that formed the Republic of Venice.

    Venezia Tridentina - current Trentino
    Venezia Euganea - current Veneto
    Venezia Giulia - current Friuli-Venezia Giulia + Istria and parts of Dalmatia


    P.S.

    Also the name Benátka, Benetka, could be connected with Latin "Venetica"; the name used to indicate the region inhabited by the ancient Veneti.
     
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    Yendred

    Senior Member
    Français - France
    one of most confusing is Venice (Eng.) = Venezia (It.) = Benátky (Cze.) ヴェネツィア (Jap.) Venediku
    If you refer to Italian language, the most confusing are on one side the pair Monaco (also called in Italian Monaco) and Munich (called in Italian Monaco di Baviera),
    and on another side the pair Geneva (called in Italian Ginevra) and Genoa (called in Italian Genova).
     

    symposium

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    Can you explain how the Veneto name is pronounced? How does it differ from the standard Italian pronunciation?
    It's pronounced "Venessia", with a sibilant S. At least that's how it's pronounced nowadays. The V is the normal Italian V.
     

    spindlemoss

    Senior Member
    Welsh
    In Welsh it's spelt Fenis /ˈvɛnɪs/ because we don't have a "v" in our alphabet (f is /v/ and ff is /f/).
     

    Zec

    Senior Member
    Croatian
    In Croatian, there are two names for Venice: Venecija and Mleci. The first one is a recent borrowing from Italian or Latin, while the second one is a traditional name now used in historical context only (when referring to the Venetian Republic). Somewhat surprisingly, it's related to Czech Benátky and Slovenian Benetke, which is masked by the extreme sound changes it has gone through.

    (Speaking in terms of Romance philology, Mleci is a native word, Venecija is a cultismo, while Benátky/Benetke is a semicultismo ;))
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    but I don't see what's wrong with ۋيينا ?
    You mean فيينا. It's not that it's wrong, it's just that البندقية is a more classical (and thus formal) way of Arabising the word. It is also less likely to be misunderstood, and already established in the language.
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    Thanks to all, who wrote or will write.
    So till now I realized, that languages, where name/pronunciation begins with "B" letter is: Czech, Japanese (Hi, Flaminius, 初めまして:)) and Arabian (Hi, Mars [Anatoli], how do you do).
    That's simple transliteration.

    In Spanish you write Venecia but also say [be'neθja/be'nesia], with B.

    Same thing for Standard Catalan Venècia [bə'nɛsiə].
     

    Yendred

    Senior Member
    Français - France
    Yes, in the same idea, I was interested to learn that Etruscans and Tuscany had the same etymology, which is obvious when you know where Etruscans lived.
     
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