venne su con il ragazzo a riprendersi il tubo

[theartichoke]

Hi everyone,

Context, which I'll try to keep brief: G wants his drugs back from P, who has locked herself in a room -- with G outside -- to bargain with him. G has already slid the money she wants under the door, but she refuses to come out and hand over the drugs (G can be violent and P doesn't trust him). Instead, she tells G to buy her ham, wine, and cheese from the salumeria downstairs and send it up with the boy from the shop, whereupon she'll send the drugs (hidden in a length of plumbing pipe) down with the boy. The next line reads Venne su con il ragazzo del salumiere a riprendersi il tubo.

Can venne su refer to the ham, wine, and cheese, or does G come back with the boy? It [all] came up with the salumiere's boy, who took back the pipe? Or He came up with the salumiere's boy to get the pipe back? The a riprendersi and the fact that her "order" includes more than one item makes me think that venne su refers to G. However, no further mention is made of G, and P had told G that she'd only open the door when he wasn't there any more. It's possible, though, that P feels safe enough to open the door once the boy is there too, as G probably wouldn't assault her (to get his money back) in front of a witness. Is there something in the line itself that tells us exactly what/who venne su with the boy?

 

[ohbice]

He came up with the salumiere's boy.
P. può pensare quello che vuole, ma G. vuole avere la droga nelle sue mani senza passare per il salumiere's boy.
"Venne... per riprendersi": nessun vassoio con panini e bevande viene per riprendersi qualcosa, ci vuole una persona.

 

[elle286]

Hi there,

"Venne su" actually means *someone* came on up.
I guess if we had the previous sentences we could say for sure, but as a native, I would say it's perfectly reasonable that G. came up with the boy to get the pipe back. Maybe he doesn't trust the boy alone.

 

[theartichoke]

He came up with the salumiere's boy.
P. può pensare quello che vuole, ma G. vuole avere la droga nelle sue mani senza passare per il salumiere's boy.
"Venne... per riprendersi": nessun vassoio con panini e bevande viene per riprendersi qualcosa, ci vuole una persona.

Very true. And it was what I was assuming until I started wondering whether the a riprendersi could attach to il ragazzo del salumiere rather than to the subject of venne su. The food came up, along with the boy to retrieve the pipe. It would be the difference between (and here I'm thinking about English punctuation, so it might not apply in Italian) Venne su, con il ragazzo del salumiere a riprendersi il tubo [the food came up, along with the boy to retrieve the pipe] and Venne su, con il ragazzo del salumiere, a riprendersi il tubo [he came up, along with the boy, to retrieve the pipe].

The original has no commas. But if three native speakers are telling me that they don't see the "the food came up...." construction at all, then I guess G. has come back, which is perfectly possible in the context. The previous sentences, incidentally, don't clarify things: they're simply P. telling G. what she wants to eat and adding Paghi tu. Voglio festeggiare. She then gets the food, hands the pipe over to an unspecified "gli," and eats her dinner in peaceful solitude.

 

[Starless74]

"Venire su" in context such as this always indicates a person coming upstairs
and "a riprendersi il tubo" could never attach to: "il ragazzo del salumiere" so it must be someone else coming upstairs to get the pipe back.

Venne su, con il ragazzo del salumiere a riprendersi il tubo [the food came up, along with the boy to retrieve the pipe]

This would've been: "[il cibo] arrivò su assieme al ragazzo del salumiere che doveva riprendersi il tubo" but sounds a bit odd anyway.

 

[Mary49]

G. comes upstairs to retrieve the pipe together with the boy who is bringing what she asked for.

 

[ohbice]

Venne su, con il ragazzo del salumiere a riprendersi il tubo [the food came up, along with the boy to retrieve the pipe] and Venne su, con il ragazzo del salumiere, a riprendersi il tubo [he came up, along with the boy, to retrieve the pipe].

No, I don't see a punctuation problem.
"(il cibo) Venne su, con il ragazzo del salumiere a prendersi il tubo". Questo può essere, il ragazzo prende il tubo. Ma il ragazzo non può "riprendersi" il tubo, non è stato lui a portare il tubo la prima volta. Solo chi ha portato il tubo può venire a "riprenderselo".

 

[theartichoke]

Thanks, everyone. At least my instincts were good before I started second guessing myself!

I'm now curious about a couple of things, though, just for my own learning. Based on Starless's and Elle's comments, would you say it's generally more common for venire (or especially venire with a preposition?) to be used for people, and arrivare for objects? And secondly, I was thinking that riprendersi might work like the English "retrieve": it means to get something back, but you can "retrieve" something for someone else. Based on #7 and #5, though, it seems that you can't riprendersi something that you yourself didn't bring. Correct?

 

[Starless74]

would you say it's generally more common for venire (or especially venire with a preposition?) to be used for people, and arrivare for objects?

The quick answer may be yes but it really depends on the context.
If I'm speaking of somebody's arrival time (e.g. by train/plane) I'd definitely use: "arrivare"
while "venire su", for example, can also indicate food coming up the œsophagus in a urge to vomit.

it seems that you can't riprendersi something that you yourself didn't bring. Correct?

I'd say yes. One "si riprende" what belongs to them and they lent/forgotten/got stolen of/ etc.

 

[london calling]

Yes, I also read it as meaning G. came up(stairs) with the grocer's errand boy to pick up/collect the pipe.

PS Why 'riprendersi' in Italian? Surely G. didn't give P. the pipe and is now taking it back? Or are we missing some context?

 

[theartichoke]

Yes, I also read it as meaning G. came up(stairs) with the grocer's errand boy to pick up/collect the pipe.

PS Why 'riprendersi' in Italian? Surely G. didn't give P. the pipe and is now taking it back? Or are we missing some context?

G. gave P.'s boyfriend (who deals for him) the drugs; the boyfriend got arrested, and so G.'s trying to get his drugs back.

 

[london calling]

G. gave P.'s boyfriend (who deals for him) the drugs; the boyfriend got arrested, and so G.'s trying to get his drugs back.

No mention of a pipe, though. How can you retrieve something (a pipe, in this instance) from someone if it wasn't given to them in the first place?

 

[theartichoke]

No mention of a pipe, though. How can you retrieve something (a pipe, in this instance) from someone if it wasn't given to them in the first place?

The boyfriend hid them in the plumbing pipe, and G. knew about it. Presumably "il tubo" is just shorthand for the drugs and their hiding place; G.'s unlikely to empty his stash out of the pipe in front of the grocer's boy.

 

[london calling]

The boyfriend hid them in the plumbing pipe, and G. knew about it. Presumably "il tubo" is just shorthand for the drugs and their hiding place; G.'s unlikely to empty his stash out of the pipe in front of the grocer's boy.

Ok, that's what I was wondering. The pipe had been mentioned before, so 'retrieve' or 'get back' work fine.

 

[ohbice]

I would not use "salgo a riprendermi il tubo" if the tubo is not mine.
May be i will use "salgo a riprendere il tubo", but not "a riprendermi".
Dato che altri hanno detto cose diverse, suppongo che sia solo una cosa mia