verb+在了

< Previous | Next >

ouzhantekin

Senior Member
Turkish - Standard
Hi everyone,

I have come across with a different use of "了" as I stated in the title and need you opinions on that. Please see the following examples:
"一到聚光燈打在了李探長的身上。"
"...炸彈已經被我安放在了公安局大樓裡。"

Source: chinesepod.com

Well I would normally put "了" either at the end of the sentence or right after the verb. But in these cases it comes after "在". Is there a specific reason or function for/of this use? Or is it more emphatic? Thanks in advance.
 
  • SuperXW

    Senior Member
    Good question. The examples were well-written, but I never really thought about why we could use 了 in this way...
    Now I just think "verb+在+了" is a common structure. You may consider 打在, 安放在 a "verb phrase" or something...
    In 99% situations, it cannot be 打了在... 放了在... anyway.

    I think adding 了 after 在 stresses "already 打在/放在 somewhere".
    If you put 了 at the end of the whole sentence, it would stress the result of the whole thing, which would sound rather strange in your case. Because obviously there are consequence following. The readers are waiting. The case has not finished.
     
    Hi everyone,

    I have come across with a different use of "了" as I stated in the title and need you opinions on that. Please see the following examples:
    "一到聚光燈打在了李探長的身上。"
    "...炸彈已經被我安放在了公安局大樓裡。"

    Source: chinesepod.com

    Well I would normally put "了" either at the end of the sentence or right after the verb. But in these cases it comes after "在". Is there a specific reason or function for/of this use? Or is it more emphatic? Thanks in advance.
    It is generally considered that there are two types of 了, named 了1 and 了2. 了2 is placed at the end of a sentence. 了1 usually comes after a verb.
    It's very hard to explain their usage. Many studies has been done on it, but it's still unclear.

    In your examples, the 了 is placed after 在, which is sometime referred as "结果补语".
    If the "补语" consists only one syllable, which is the most usual, you must put the 了 after the it. e.g.
    站了起来 (起来 has two syllables)
    站起了身子 (起 has only one syllable)
     

    kenjoluma

    Senior Member
    Korean
    If it is that you ask as to why 了 is right after 在, it's because 在 is a verb here...

    If it is that you ask about the difference between 了 placed right after the verb and 了 placed in the end of the sentence, it's completely a different story.
     

    ouzhantekin

    Senior Member
    Turkish - Standard
    Good question. The examples were well-written, but I never really thought about why we could use 了 in this way...
    Now I just think "verb+在+了" is a common structure. You may consider 打在, 安放在 a "verb phrase" or something...
    In 99% situations, it cannot be 打了在... 放了在... anyway.

    I think adding 了 after 在 stresses "already 打在/放在 somewhere".
    If you put 了 at the end of the whole sentence, it would stress the result of the whole thing, which would sound rather strange in your case. Because obviously there are consequence following. The readers are waiting. The case has not finished.
    You have been most helpful as always, SuperXW. Yes,I think I remember my grammer classes on "了", and definitely the rule about putting at the end of the sentence or right after the verb.. If there more than one action to be realized, as far as I am concerned, it must be put right after the verb and if not should be placed at the end. So according to your point of view, I should take them, say, as a phrasal verb ;)

    It is generally considered that there are two types of 了, named 了1 and 了2. 了2 is placed at the end of a sentence. 了1 usually comes after a verb.
    It's very hard to explain their usage. Many studies has been done on it, but it's still unclear.

    In your examples, the 了 is placed after 在, which is sometime referred as "结果补语".
    If the "补语" consists only one syllable, which is the most usual, you must put the 了 after the it. e.g.
    站了起来 (起来 has two syllables)
    站起了身子 (起 has only one syllable)
    Your explaination has been somewhat enlightening, YangMuye. This was a question which I had asked to my teacher back in Taiwan and she couldn't exactly explain why. But your theory looks like the answer to my question.. I will never forget this rule of thumb, I mean, until I find an exception of course :p By the way let's see if I am on the right track:

    一看到黑龍,村人逃了進去房子裡。 (two syllables)

    我一放手,他就跑上了前面那座高山。

    Thanks..
     

    ouzhantekin

    Senior Member
    Turkish - Standard
    If it is that you ask as to why 了 is right after 在, it's because 在 is a verb here...

    If it is that you ask about the difference between 了 placed right after the verb and 了 placed in the end of the sentence, it's completely a different story.
    Verb? I beg to differ... Let's see:

    他在不在? - to me, this looks like a verb
     
    Your explaination has been somewhat enlightening, YangMuye. This was a question which I had asked to my teacher back in Taiwan and she couldn't exactly explain why. But your theory looks like the answer to my question.. I will never forget this rule of thumb, I mean, until I find an exception of course :p By the way let's see if I am on the right track:

    一看到黑龍,村人逃了進去房子裡。 (two syllables)

    我一放手,他就跑上了前面那座高山。

    Thanks..
    I'm glad to help.

    The second sentence sounds good.
    The first sentence sounds a little unidiomatic.
    You can say 一看到黑龍,村人房子裡。
    就 is correlated with 一.
    You would usually use a one-syllable complement followed by an object(the object may be omitted if it's known from the context) and two-syllable complement when it ends a sentence. Sometimes, you can even break a two-syllable complement. (The two types of complement are still different, even though they are similar in form and meaning)

    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進去。 ok
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃房子里。 ok, but not so common
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃房子里。 ok
    (in this case, 房子里 is actually adverbial in English, but in Chinese, it is a noun surrounded by a preposition 进 and a postposition 里.

    他抽
    他拿起烟,抽

    There are some exceptions:
    前面走过来()一个人/前面走()一个人/有一个人从前边走()过来。(?前面走一个人过来 doesn't sound natural. I would say 前面()()一个人. 走 sounds like "go away" rather than "walk" here.)
    他汇过来()一笔钱/他汇()一笔钱/他汇一笔钱()/他汇一笔钱(过来)

    It seems that if the object is preceded by a quantifier, you can use two syllable complements.

    When the verb is accompanied by a complement, sometimes you can omit the 了 after it.
    It's very hard for me to explain when to use two-syllable complement, when to omit 了 and what is the difference.

    Edit:
    I said 進 was a complement at first and then said 進 was a preposition in the first example.
    It is actually more like a complement in that example because it is followed by 了.
    No matter what it is, remembering the usage should be helpful.
     
    Last edited:

    CodinCat

    New Member
    Chinese (zh-tw)
    1. 一看到黑龍,村人逃了進去房子裡。
    2. 我一放手,他就跑上了前面那座高山。
    The first one is not fluent.
    了 is a pleonasm, and lack a 就
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進了房子裡。 //Good, this is the basic version :)
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃了進房子裡。 //Add a little variation, it's still great!
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進房子裡。 //The most basic and simple version

    Let's add a "去"
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進了去房子裡。 // NOT Ok!
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃了進去房子裡。 //NOT Ok!!!
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進去房子裡。 //hmm... can get 60(/100) points, not too bad but not perfect.

    But see this one:
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃了進去。 //It's OK!
    「逃了進去」can be used without object, and is a very common usage.

    And the second one....
    我一放手,他就跑上了前面那座高山。

    It's very nice!
     
    Last edited:

    xiaolijie

    Senior Member
    UK
    English (UK)
    The first one is not fluent.
    了 is a pleonasm, and lack a 就
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進了房子裡。 //Good, this is the basic version :)
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃了進房子裡。 //Add a little variation, it's still great!
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進房子裡。 //The most basic and simple version

    Let's add a "去"
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進了去房子裡。 // NOT Ok!
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃了進去房子裡。 //NOT Ok!!!
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進去房子裡。 //hmm... can get 60(/100) points, not too bad but not perfect.

    But see this one:
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃了進去。 //It's OK!
    「逃了進去」can be used without object, and is a very common usage.
    This is no good! :D How can the following version that I'd use be left out?

    一看到黑龍,村人就逃進了房子裡
     
    一看到黑龍,村人就逃了進房子裡。 //Add a little variation, it's still great!
    Maybe the Mandarin spoken in Taiwan is different here.
    But I got 40,000,000 results by searching "逃进了*里" and 1 by “逃了进*里”.
    Google web search normalizes Traditional and Simplified Chinese, so you will get exact the same result with “逃進了*裡” and “逃了進*裡”.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top