verb (dictionary form)+として

thetazuo

Senior Member
Chinese - China
「……ぬ、まあ、それもそうか。で……そういう組織があるとして、だ。おまえいつ、どうしてそこの司令官になんてなったんだよ。俺は全然知らなかったぞ」

The speaker’s sister is introducing a secret organization to him. The speaker is very surprised that his sister became a commander in that organization.

Hi. What is the meaning or function of として here? Does it mean “supposing” or “assuming”? But I can’t find this meaning in any dictionary. Besides, what does the pattern “verb (dictionary form)+として” usually mean?
Thank you.
 
  • thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    I have just remembered that I asked about it few weeks ago. It seems my understanding of it is correct. So it appears that there is a clause omitted between として、and だ. Right?

    And can I ask about another example, which employs the same pattern but doesn’t appear to mean “supposing” or “assuming”.

    (Said by a policeman)「詳しい話は署で聴かせてもらうとして、君に最初に確認しておきたいんだけどね」

    What does the として mean here?
    Thank you.
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    there is a clause omitted between として、and だ. Right?
    No. The clause that finishes the construction is: なんでその司令官になった. だ just places an emphasis on the conditional part.

    Again, として denotes a condition (more precisely, the protasis of a conditional structure). It's not always interchangeable with "supposing" or "assuming." In the policeman's utterance, it translates into "okay, let's say that (we will debrief you later at the police station)."
     

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    Thank you, Flaminius.
    okay, let's say that (we will debrief you later at the police station)."
    But this sounds like the police aren’t really going to debrief “you” later but just mentions it as a possibility.:confused: But according to the context, the police are definitely going to listen to what “you” have to say in detail at the station later. I’m not sure if “Okay, let say that” and “supposing/assuming” are that different.

    How about this meaning?
    (from Weblio)
    話題をそのままに放置しておく気持ちを表す。 「それはそれ-、本題に入ろう」 「詳細はあとで報告させること-、質問を続けてください」
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Of course, they will surely bring in this person. I still say this marks the protasis, but, if "setting aside" is a better gloss for you to understand the meaning, I am fine. It is a Japanese expression and need be understood as a Japanese expression.
     

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    Thanks again.
    I still say this marks the protasis, but, if "setting aside" is a better gloss for you to understand the meaning, I am fine. It is a Japanese expression and need be understood as a Japanese expression.
    So instead of translating the として into “okay, let’s say that”, can you explain its intended nuance as an idiomatic Japanese expression, if you don’t think “setting aside” is the nuance here?

    Compared with 詳しい話は署で聴かせてもらう、君に最初に確認しておきたいんだけどね。?
     
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