Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Mezzo, Feb 22, 2006.
What does viva mean in this instance? Thank you.
It is a subjunctive of vivere, to live, expressing a wish.
Like "long live the Queen".
Hope this helps.
I would translate it as 'long live Italy'
Is it not imperative? Long live Italy!
Literal: Live Italy! (Italy has to live!)
I only want to say that "viva" in this context may be abbreviate with "W"!
The meaning is almost the same, but the imperative form exist in italian only for the second persons (singular and plural). For the third persons it is used the subjunctive. You may say "let Italy lives" (I think...please correct me if I'm wrong!)
Well, I am not a grammarian, but it is hard to think of an imperative for the third person, isn't it? Or do you think it is the second person, like "Italy, live long please"? The analogy with "long live the Queen" leads me to the conclusion that it must be the third one.
Anyway, (formal) imperatives in Italian are basically the forms of subjunctive (congiuntivo), so you are certainly not wide of the mark.
The general translation for subjunctives expressing desire would be "may something happen", "möge etwas passieren".
I think the only solution in English is Long Live Italy! The others don't really make sense, for example 'let Italy lives' is gramatically incorrect in English, and 'Italy has to live' doesn't sound right. Hope this helps.
Thank you! I was in doubt... sorry for my mistake!
I was comparing it to German to be honest. And luckily you know German better than many natives.
I was thinking of: "Es lebe der König!" "Es lebe Italien!" I thought it was Befehlsform (imperative) but when I think about it I might be wrong.
p.s. I knew it was a wish but I thought grammatically it was imperative.
To correct Combustion, 'Let Italy live' (wothout the s) seems technically correct but sounds wrong. It sounds like an instruction to someone else to allow Italy to live. In another context, it could have a more subjunctive sound to it. E.g. Let Italy live, (and) the world will never be short of spaghetti.
So, like "lascia vivere l'Italia?"
thank you so much!!!!!!!
and what about
(in a sport context, like a soccer match...)
(it's not literal, but I think its meaning is not so distant...)
I think we need from Mezzo more context, because in italian we'll never say "viva Italia" , we'll say "...viva l'Italia!" as ie in the end of our national anthem. I understand now that it is not easy to explain, there is a Francesco de Gregori's song title Viva l'Italia that could be useful.
(sorry about my englih...)
'Viva!' is a very common word, in phrases such as 'Viva Italia!'. Now, Im sure 'Viva Italia' is correct; but I question why it is that conjugation!!!! Shouldnt it be Vivi Italia! (Vivi being the imperative of vivere?). Anyway thats beside the point. Another person might know the word 'Viva' from anywhere and put it there unaware of the conjugation.Is Viva Italia! (as an imperative) wrong???
It is an imperative... somehow, but for the third person singular, not for the second one.
However, expressing the imperative for the third person is done by using the subjunctive mode. So that is why the conjugation is like that.
A quick reply, if I'll manage to be brief (I never do !).
I think the phrase you read at the restaurant was "Chi mangia bene, vive bene". It's a phrase built with the impersonal form, which usually wants the third person singular (like in "it's raining").
You can transform it into an equivalent one with the first person plural, but it becomes :
"Coloro che mangiano bene, vivono bene", which sounds less natural to my ears, and anyway not a suitable phrase for a nice motto.
The word "Viva" is a word used for exclamations like "Viva l'Italia!" "Viva la democrazia!" and so on.
I've never thought of the origin of this word, and now, while typing this, I think it has the same meaning of "long live" (like in "long live to the king"), because "viva" is a conjugation of the verb "vivere", in the third person singular.
I hope it helps.
CORRECTION:You can transform it into an equivalent one with the THIRD person plural bla bla bla
I THINK "VIVA" IS SUBJUNTIVE OF VIVERE...IT WOULD BE "CHE LEI VIVA" (3RD PERSON SINGULAR) BUT IT IS USED JUST IN THIS FORM...
EX. viva cristina! (sing)
viva gli sposi! (pl)
AND THE MEANING IS "LONG LIFE TO..."
I 'M NOT VERY GOOD EXPLAINING...BUT I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND ANYWAY WITH THE EXAMPLES...CIAO CIAO
I agree: " (che) viva l'Italia!" , congiuntivo in Italian subjuntive in English...
mi sono sentita chiamata in causa dal "viva cristina"...
Burrito, per cortesia dobbiamo evitare l'uso del maiuscolo! Grazie da parte dei solerti Mods di WR!
The right expression is VIVA L'ITALIA (with article).
I think it's congiuntivo (subjuntive). It should be Che viva l'Italia.
or "go italy"
"Vivi Italia!" is a strong imperative, it could be like "Live, Italy!"
"Viva l'Italia is the short form of "Che viva l'Italia!" and so "Viva l'Italia" is transatable as "Long live Italy!"
Separate names with a comma.