was einfach von der Gesellschaft getrieben ist.

Dupon

Senior Member
Chinese
In Deutschland ist immer noch so ’n bisschen ’ne Zurückhaltung der Frauen da, was diese technischen Berufe angeht, was einfach von der Gesellschaft getrieben ist.

“was diese technischen Berufe angeht, was einfach von der Gesellschaft getrieben ist.” acts as the attribute of “eine Zurückhaltung”.

In“was einfach von der Gesellschaft getrieben ist.”, how to distinguish it is a passive sentence or it is an perfect tense? (because "sein+past participle" can be a passive sentence or a perfect tense). Based on its meaning, I think it is the passive, but I still want to know how the native speakers distinguish it.


Thanks!
 
  • Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    It's indeed passive (Zustandspassiv) or an predicative adjective. Perfect tense is not possible, because "treiben" takes "haben", not "sein": Es hat ihn getrieben.
     

    Dupon

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Thanks for the answer. And I also check the dictionary, "treiben" could also be used with "sein" in perfect tense, in this case it means "float" or "drift" (vi.), but I think this usage is not reasonable here.


    It's indeed passive (Zustandspassiv) or an predicative adjective. Perfect tense is not possible, because "treiben" takes "haben", not "sein": Es hat ihn getrieben.
     

    Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    And I also check the dictionary, "treiben" could also be used with "sein" in perfect tense, in this case it means "float" or "drift" (vi.), but I think this usage is not reasonable here.
    You're right. The meaning of "getrieben" here is driven.

    I found a better example here (page 6):
    a. Meine Nachbarin ist verreist. (Zustandspassiv oder Perfekt)
    b. Meine Nachbarin ist seit zwei Wochen / bis morgen / lange verreist. (Zustandspassiv)
    c. Meine Nachbarin ist vor zwei Wochen / gestern / plötzlich verreist. (Perfekt)
    Sentence a. is indeed ambiguous.
     

    Gernot Back

    Senior Member
    German - Germany
    You're right. The meaning of "getrieben" here is driven.

    I found a better example here (page 6):

    a. Meine Nachbarin ist verreist. (Zustandspassiv oder Perfekt)
    b. Meine Nachbarin ist seit zwei Wochen / bis morgen / lange verreist. (Zustandspassiv)
    c. Meine Nachbarin ist vor zwei Wochen / gestern / plötzlich verreist. (Perfekt)
    Sentence a. is indeed ambiguous.
    I don't see how one could possibly see a passive voice, be it stative or agentive, with an intransitive verb like verreisen.
     

    ablativ

    Senior Member
    German(y)
    Ist verreist / ist seit zwei Wochen verreist is - due to the lack of a possible direct object - certainly no regular passive voice.

    But there is a difference in meaning between gereist (pure active voice) and verreist.

    Being "verreist" could be seen as something in between active and passive voice which is often called "Mediopassive". Die Frage stellt sich nicht / Er ist in (dative) Italien verreist. In the sense of "something that happens to someone/something": Latin: tempora mutantur (deponens - passive voice): what happens to time? Time doesn't change itself. German: Die Zeiten ändern sich, Latin: Die Zeiten werden verändert.

    Ugly things sell badly - verkaufen sich schlecht.

    Er ist / steckt irgendwo in Italien verreist - it has happened to him, es hat sich für ihn so ergeben. Er hat sich auf die Reise begeben durch sein Fernweh. Er ist verreist = Mediopassiv (in a generous way of thinking).
     
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    Gernot Back

    Senior Member
    German - Germany
    Er ist verreist

    is simply the Perfekt tense of an intransitive verb denoting a change of state or place, which is formed with the auxiliary verb sein.

    canoonet - Verb: Tense: Perfect with haben or sein

    Especially with verbs denoting a change of state, you can also analyze their Perfect tenses as a present-tense copula combined with a predicative adjective.

    Compare:

    German: Der Boden ist gefroren.
    English: The soil has frozen.
    (present perfect)
    or
    The soil is frozen.
    (present tense)
     
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