We have to make some sort of satisfaction for our sins

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catherineosb

Senior Member
England, English
Ciao a tutti!:)

Come si direbbe in italiano: "We have to repent and turn round and face God, and we have to make some sort of satisfaction for our sins"?

Si trova nel commentario che la nostra Badessa sta scrivendo sulla Regola di San Benedetto. Qui discute la dinamica del pentimento. La frase precedente dice: "Once we have broken our part of the covenant, rupturing the relationship, we cannot simply return to where we were."

Pensavo di renderla: "Ci serve pentirci e rivolgerci a Dio, e dobbiamo fare una qualche soddisfazione per i nostri peccati", ma non sono certa che una qualche... rende correttamente "some sort of", che non trovo nel dizionario. Va bene cosi' - Che pensate? Grazie in anticipo!

Catherineosb.
 
  • subtitle

    Senior Member
    Italian
    I agree with Charles. It could be:
    "Dobbiamo pentirci e tornare indietro e affrontare Dio, e dobbiamo fare dei sacrifici per i nostri peccati"
     

    CristoferoJ

    Member
    English, England
    I think that if the original says "satisfaction" then that is the word that the original translator of Benedict's latin text must have felt appropriate at the time "satisfaction" does not mean the same as "sacrifice". In this sense it properly indicates "atonemment".

    As for the original question how to translate "some sort of": how about <qualsiasi tipo di> or <qualsiasi genere di>

    The first sounds better to my ear but then my mother tongue is English!
     

    catherineosb

    Senior Member
    England, English
    Catherine, are you sure that it's not make some sort of sacrifice for our sins? It would make more sense.
    Hi, Charles Costante and subtitle!

    I'm afraid that it really isn't "sacrifice" here, but agree that "satisfaction" is misleading. If I tell you the sentence that comes AFTER the one in question, i.e. "This is where penance comes in, and the penitential rites of the Church (penance is not very popular, either)", does that make it any clearer? I do find that I have to "reinterpret" M. Abbess, and she is generally willing to accept small changes for the sake of clarity.

    Catherine.

    I think that if the original says "satisfaction" then that is the word that the original translator of Benedict's latin text must have felt appropriate at the time "satisfaction" does not mean the same as "sacrifice". In this sense it properly indicates "atonemment".

    As for the original question how to translate "some sort of": how about <qualsiasi tipo di> or <qualsiasi genere di>

    The first sounds better to my ear but then my mother tongue is English!
    Not actually in the Rule itself, only the commentary but I think "satisfaction" has a long pedigree in this kind of literature! Given the general tone, I prefer <qualsiasi genere di>:)

    Many thanks! Catherine.
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    Hi, Charles Costante and subtitle!

    I'm afraid that it really isn't "sacrifice" here, but agree that "satisfaction" is misleading. If I tell you the sentence that comes AFTER the one in question, i.e. "This is where penance comes in, and the penitential rites of the Church (penance is not very popular, either)", does that make it any clearer? I do find that I have to "reinterpret" M. Abbess, and she is generally willing to accept small changes for the sake of clarity.

    Catherine.
    Catherine, penance is self-punishment, which is really a form of sacrifice, but I've checked the Webster's dictionary and it gives atonement as a synonym for satisfaction, so you're probably right. It's just that the average person wouldn't connect the two. :)
     
    Last edited:

    Paulfromitaly

    MODerator
    Italian
    Catherine, penance is self-punishment, which is really a form of sacrifice, but I've checked the Webster's dictionary and it gives atonement as a synonym for satisfaction, so it's you're probably right. It's just that the average person wouldn't connect the two. :)
    I believe the Italian version has the same problem: the first and more common meaning of "soddisfazione" doesn't actually fit in, however a learned reader would probably be able to interpret it correctly.
     

    You little ripper!

    Senior Member
    Australian English
    I believe the Italian version has the same problem: the first and more common meaning of "soddisfazione" doesn't actually fit in, however a learned reader would probably be able to interpret it correctly.
    DeMauro gives this as one of the definitions of soddisfazione:

    pagamento, saldo: s. dei debiti pendenti | adempimento: s. degli obblighi di leva | riparazione di un’offesa o di un danno: voglio s. di questo oltraggio!

    Does any of that fit in with atonement?
     

    Paulfromitaly

    MODerator
    Italian
    DeMauro gives this as one of the definitions of soddisfazione:

    pagamento, saldo: s. dei debiti pendenti | adempimento: s. degli obblighi di leva | riparazione di un’offesa o di un danno: voglio s. di questo oltraggio!

    Does any of that fit in with atonement?
    Mah, maybe the third one..
    I'd personally say espiazione (atonement), but that's not what Catherine wants. :)
     

    pask46

    Senior Member
    Italy-italian
    I think that the crucial point here is the word "satisfaction" which is used in a more medieval meaning...
    "avere soddisfazione" was used, for instance, before honor duels.
    "You owe me satisfaction", was the typical sentence addressed from the challenger to the counterpart, meaning "you have to lean my anger" (by fighting), allowing me to be satisfied because you caused me a sort of damage, whether moral or phisical.
    If you use give instead of make (we have to give some sort of satisfaction) the whole contest sounds like

    Dobbiamo pentirci e affrontare Dio, al quale dobbiamo ("make", but I'll rather think it should be "give") in qualche modo (a sort of) rendere conto ( satisfaction, in Honor Code way) dei nostri peccati.

    Also because, in the sentence before, the idea is that we cannot ignore the fact that, by breaking the rule, we caused a change in the relation, and we have to do something to repair it. Or at least we have to deal with it, to face God, not simply turn away and act as if nothing had happened...

    Does it sound good for you?

    Bye.
     

    catherineosb

    Senior Member
    England, English
    Mah, maybe the third one..
    I'd personally say espiazione (atonement), but that's not what Catherine wants. :)
    That might well be the most appropriate - I've already used "espiato", earlier on the same page, to translate "every sin must be atoned for". Being more used, naturally, to the Abbess' turn of phrase than anyone on the Forum is likely to be, I almost always try to translate it exactly unless or until I'm brought up short by the discovery that everyone finds it highly misleading!:eek: At that point I read all the proposals and weigh up the evidence. Maybe I should give more context more often...:rolleyes:

    Thanks very much!

    Catherine.

    I think that the crucial point here is the word "satisfaction" which is used in a more medieval meaning...
    "avere soddisfazione" was used, for instance, before honor duels.
    "You owe me satisfaction", was the typical sentence addressed from the challenger to the counterpart, meaning "you have to lean my anger" (by fighting), allowing me to be satisfied because you caused me a sort of damage, whether moral or phisical.
    If you use give instead of make (we have to give some sort of satisfaction) the whole contest sounds like

    Dobbiamo pentirci e affrontare Dio, al quale dobbiamo ("make", but I'll rather think it should be "give") in qualche modo (a sort of) rendere conto ( satisfaction, in Honor Code way) dei nostri peccati.

    Also because, in the sentence before, the idea is that we cannot ignore the fact that, by breaking the rule, we caused a change in the relation, and we have to do something to repair it. Or at least we have to deal with it, to face God, not simply turn away and act as if nothing had happened...

    Does it sound good for you?

    Bye.
    Charles, Christofero, pask46, I do value all your contributions which help me to look at the question with new eyes. I think that the Oblates for whom the commentary is intended are sufficiently used to the Rule to understand "satisfaction", but even so, it is always better to try a new expression in the hope of greater clarity Thanks a lot! Catherine.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    catherineosb

    Senior Member
    England, English
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