Welsh: dwylo (hands)

Gavril

Senior Member
English, USA
Hello,

I remember being taught that dwylo (originally meaning "two hands") is the default plural of llaw "hand".

Some Welsh dictionaries, such as Geiriadur yr Academi, agree that dwylo is the plural of llaw, but Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru lists llaw(i)au or llawoedd as the first options for the plural, and it mentions that "Dwylo a ddefnyddir fel ll. bellach ac eithrio mewn ystyron tros".

Because I'm not familiar with the word bellach, I am not sure if this is saying that dwylo is no longer used as a plural except in metaphorical (trosiadol) meanings, or if it is still used as a plural except in metaphorical meanings. (I am also not sure if "tros." stands for trosiadol, as I can't find a guide to GPC's abbreviations anywhere, but it was my best guess.)

Can anyone help clarify?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
  • fdkilp

    New Member
    Welsh
    Hi,

    "Dwylo" is the only plural of "llaw" that I would use personally. Though in regard to the word "bellach" which roughly translates to "now" or "any more". "Bellach" might be used, for example at the start of a main clause, such as "Bellach mae gennyf swydd" or something along those lines. In the context of any more it might be used to state "Nid oes gennyf swydd bellach".
     

    Tegs

    Mód ar líne
    English (Ireland)
    "Dwylo a ddefnyddir fel ll. bellach ac eithrio mewn ystyron tros" = Dwylo is now used as a plural, except in metaphorical meanings.

    Basically, always use dwylo, never llawiau or llawoedd.
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    (I am also not sure if "tros." stands for trosiadol, as I can't find a guide to GPC's abbreviations anywhere, but it was my best guess.)

    It turns out that you just need to move the mouse pointer over the abbreviated text (on the GPC website), and an explanation will normally pop up. However, it seems that they forgot to annotate the abbreviation "tros." in this particular entry, because nothing happens when I scroll over it.

    Thanks to you both!
     

    Tegs

    Mód ar líne
    English (Ireland)
    The pop up text doesn't show for tros in that particular case because if there are two instances of the same abbreviation in the same entry the pop up explanation will only show up the first time the abbreviation appears. I have underlined the first instance of it below:

    eb. (ac weithiau’n eg. yn dros.) ll. -(i)au, -oedd (ll. bach. -iach). Dwylo a ddefnyddir fel ll. bellach ac eithrio mewn ystyron tros.

    Of course, that assumes that you recognize that "tros" is another form of "dros" which has been mutated because of "yn" coming before it, which may not be immediately clear to learners. So if you come across that issue in future, scroll over any other abbreviations you see that look vaguely similar and it might help :)
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Hmm, I wonder what the thinking behind that is. Maybe they assume that you will read the entirety of an entry, and will therefore come across the first instance of an abbreviation (and look it up) before you see any later ones. But the average entry in GPC is pretty long.

    Would it really be so taxing on their storage space to just annotate every instance of an abbreviation? :) Or, do they have a single "master" page on their site that lists all the abbreviations they use? I have done a little Googling but haven't found one.


    The pop up text doesn't show for tros in that particular case because if there are two instances of the same abbreviation in the same entry the pop up explanation will only show up the first time the abbreviation appears. I have underlined the first instance of it below:

    eb. (ac weithiau’n eg. yn dros.) ll. -(i)au, -oedd (ll. bach. -iach). Dwylo a ddefnyddir fel ll. bellach ac eithrio mewn ystyron tros.

    Of course, that assumes that you recognize that "tros" is another form of "dros" which has been mutated because of "yn" coming before it, which may not be immediately clear to learners. So if you come across that issue in future, scroll over any other abbreviations you see that look vaguely similar and it might help :)
     

    Tegs

    Mód ar líne
    English (Ireland)
    I can't find a master list in the online version. You could always email and ask if they could do that - it doesn't hurt to ask :)
     
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