Welsh: Mynwy, Mynyw

Panceltic

Senior Member
Slovenščina
Hello everybody,

in Wales, there are two dioceses with very similar names: the (Anglican) Diocese of Monmouth (Esgobaeth Mynwy) and the (Catholic) Diocese of Menevia (Esgobaeth Mynyw).

I wonder what is the pronunciation of both, and if anybody could explain their etimologies? Are the two names related? I can't find anything online.

Thanks in advance :)
 
  • Stoggler

    Senior Member
    English (Southern England)
    I can't help with the etymologies, but they are pronounced thus:

    Mynwy - /'mə.nʊi/
    Mynyw - /'mə.nɪu/

    These are based on southern Welsh varieties, the diphthongs in the second syllable of each is different in the north of the country (check out the Wikipedia article on Welsh orthography for these differences)
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Thanks a lot! I've checked the Wikipedia article and it seems to suggest the only difference is the y-part of diphthongs being pronounced /ɨ/.

    I suppose the Welsh speakers don't confuse the two names? Menevia seems to be used only in ecclesiastical contexts in English, is Mynyw used more frequently in Welsh?

    I also understand that the Welsh name for Monmouth is actually Trefynwy, so there are even fewer chances of any misunderstanding.
     

    spindlemoss

    Senior Member
    Welsh
    Thanks a lot! I've checked the Wikipedia article and it seems to suggest the only difference is the y-part of diphthongs being pronounced /ɨ/.

    Stoggler's transcriptions are correct, and used in south Wales. You'd come across /ɨ/ in northern accents.

    Mynwy S: ['mə.nʊi], N: ['mə.nʊɨ]
    Mynyw S: ['mə.nɪu], N: ['mə.nɨ̞u]

    I suppose the Welsh speakers don't confuse the two names? Menevia seems to be used only in ecclesiastical contexts in English, is Mynyw used more frequently in Welsh?

    It's not used now in Welsh because you'd refer to the place or diocese as Tyddewi (St Davids, literally "David's house", from the name of the monastery). I've only heard Mynyw used in Welsh when discussing history.

    I also understand that the Welsh name for Monmouth is actually Trefynwy, so there are even fewer chances of any misunderstanding.

    That's right. Mynyw in English is the river Monnow, so Monmouth is Trefynwy (town of the Monnow) and Monmouthshire is Sir Fynwy (county of the Monnow).

    I can't find any info on the etymologies at the moment, sorry. I did learn this interesting Latin phrase though recently: Roma semel quantum, dat bis Menevia tantum i.e. two pilgrimages to Mynyw were worth one to Rome.
     
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