"wh words/how" + "that" --- can they occur together?

Lun-14

Banned
Hindi
Hi

Once I heard an English teacher saying "That and wh words/how are the worst enemies of each other" meaning they can never occur together in a sentence. But when I see the posts in this forum, I usually notice people going against this, for example:

The problem that I'm facing these days is that when I try to sleep, I cannot get a full sleep. Maybe I'm suffering from insomnia (the sleeplessness).
The question that I want to ask you is that why do you not go for a walk in the morning? - if you do this, it will maintain your energy and you'll feel fresh all the time.
The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that how do you manage to do all this just in two hours?

In all of those sentences, wh words/how and that occur together.

What do you think as to whether my thinking is right?

Any suggestions, please?

Thank you:)
 
  • PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    You probably heard an English teacher saying "Wh words/how, when used as interrogatives, and that are the worst enemies of each other."

    The problem that I'm facing these days is that when I try to sleep, I cannot get a full sleep. Maybe I'm suffering from insomnia (the sleeplessness).:tick:
    The question that I want to ask you is that why do you not go for a walk in the morning? - if you do this, it will maintain your energy and you'll feel fresh all the time.:cross:
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that how do you manage to do all this just in two hours?:cross:
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    I have no idea what your teacher meant what s/he said that, unlesss/he was referring to question forms.;) In any case, please note:
    The problem that I'm facing these days is that when I try to sleep, I cannot get a full sleep. sleep properly. Maybe I'm suffering from insomnia (the sleeplessness).
    The question that I want to ask you is that why do you not go for a walk in the morning? - if you do this, it will maintain your energy and you'll feel fresh all the time.
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that how do you manage to do all this just in two hours?
    Edit. Cross-posted
     

    Lun-14

    Banned
    Hindi
    Hi PaulQ, London calling,

    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that when will you come to India? ("when" is being used as an interrogative, so "that" and "when" can never come together.)
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that when you will come to India. ("when" is not being used as an interrogative here. It's a statement; not a question.)

    Note the position of "will" in both sentences.

    I think I'm right, am I?


     

    PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that when you will come to India.:cross:

    "When are you coming?"
    She asked me when I was coming.

    The same "when"

    It is an indirect question... The most important thing that I'm curious to know is when (=at what time?) you will come to India. :tick:
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that when will you come to India? :cross:("when" is being used as an interrogative, so "that" and "when" can never come together.)
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that when you will come to India.:cross: ("when" is not being used as an interrogative here. It's a statement; not a question.)
    If you wish your first sentence to be a question, you need to add a colon:

    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is: that when will you come to India?
     

    Florentia52

    Modwoman in the attic
    English - United States
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is when will you come to India?:cross:
    The most important thing (that) I'm curious to know is: when will you come to India?:thumbsup:
    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that when you will come to India.:cross:
    The most important thing (that) I'm curious to know is when you will come to India.:tick:

    [Cross-posted with everyone,]

     

    Lun-14

    Banned
    Hindi
    Thank you everyone,
    I am most curious to know the usage of "that" and "when" together. Can anyone of you summarize when they can come together and when not? My confusion arises due to PaulQ's red part:

    "Wh words/how, when used as interrogatives, and that are the worst enemies of each other."

    It means that when they are not used as interrogatives, they can come together., that's why I thought my this sentence would be correct, but this was marked wrong:confused::(:

    The most important thing that I'm curious to know is that when you will come to India.
     

    PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    that's why I thought my this sentence would be correct, but this was marked wrong
    It was marked wrong because, even in an indirect question, when remains an interrogative...

    "Let me tell you that when you come to Indian, you will be amazed by the sights." :tick:-> when is not an interrogative, it means: whenever; at the time.

    "When will you come to India?" when is an interrogative, it means: "At what time?; Upon which occasion?; Upon which day?"

    "I want to know when you will come to India." when is an interrogative, it means: "At what time?; Upon which occasion?; Upon which day?"
     
    Last edited:

    Lun-14

    Banned
    Hindi
    Thank you.

    It was marked wrong because, even in an indirect question, when remains an interrogative
    Is that rule valid for other wh words (why, where, how etc)? - I mean, in an indirect question, do other wh words also remain interrogative?
     

    PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    Yes:
    "How does it work?"
    She asked how it worked.
    She asked "Where are they?"
    She wanted to know where they were.
    "Why is the sky blue?"
    She wondered why the sky was blue.
     

    Lun-14

    Banned
    Hindi
    I think in most of the cases, "that" and "wh words/how" are enemies. I wish I could find the way in which these can be friends.
    I hope someone can help make them up with each other.:D
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    natkretep

    Moderato con anima (English Only)
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    As others have said, if the wh- words are not used as interrogatives, the relative pronoun that can be used with them.

    You must remember that why someone does it is not relevant. (why = the reason)
    ... that when he comes is not known. (when = the time)
    ... that how you make it is up to you. (how = the way)
    ... that what you say affects everyone. (what = the thing)
     
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