I've lived in France and think that most French people don't even grasp what syllable stress is. It's an irrelevant concept in French, just as syllable tone in most European languages.
Yes or no, he can be right. The apostrophe is not written in French IPA, because when we're reading a single word, for example, "télévision", we can change the stresses, we can put the stress on the beginning or at the end, also, we can pronounce all the syllables in mid tones. Otherwise, we need some stresses in a whole sentence, for exemple, "J'ai regardé la télévision", the "-dé" of "regardé" should be pronounced in a high tone, but the "-sion" of "télévision" can be pronounced with a half-high tone or a mid tone, not very high, because it's not a question. Remember, in the sentence, the important thing is the last syllable of words.Bonjour!
I have this lingering doubt (I hope it is not very stupid). All words of more than one syllable in all languages (or at least I suppose so?) have one syllable that is stressed more than the others. In English, a word's stressed syllable is shown beside the word in the phonetic pronunciation where a mark like an apostrophe appears before the stressed syllable. But in French I have this problem: I don't know which the stressed syllable is because the "apostrophe" doesn't appear in the phonetic pronunciation. I asked a friend who is learning French why this mark is not shown and he told me that it is because all words in French are stressed on the last syllable (?) Is he right? Then, I asked another friend of mine about this and she told me that that wasn't true and she gave as an example that "fenêtre" is not stressed on the last syllable. Do the diacritics indicate where the word is stressed like in Spanish?
Thank you.
This discussion is about stress (that is dynamic stress) and not about tone. Those are different things and only loosely related.Yes or no, he can be right. The apostrophe is not written in French IPA, because when we're reading a single word, for example, "télévision", we can change the stresses, we can put the stress on the beginning or at the end, also, we can pronounce all the syllables in mid tones. Otherwise, we need some stresses in a whole sentence, for exemple, "J'ai regardé la télévision", the "-dé" of "regardé" should be pronounced in a high tone, but the "-sion" of "télévision" can be pronounced with a half-high tone or a mid tone, not very high, because it's not a question. Remember, in the sentence, the important thing is the last syllable of words.
I don't think it's irrelevant, it is just that syllable stress in French is not a property of each word per se but it can be just about anywhere (or nowhere) depending on the context. It is certainly the case that when confronted with a systematically accented foreign language such as English or Latin, most native French speakers seem to be completely at sea as far as accentuation is concerned. This is beautifully illustrated by Poulenc's bizarre accentuation in his wonderful Gloria. (His lau'damus 'te, benedici'mus te is particularly endearingI've lived in France and think that most French people don't even grasp what syllable stress is. It's an irrelevant concept in French, just as syllable tone in most European languages.
They said it was irrelevant (=does not carry any information) in French and that is certainly so.I don't think it's irrelevant
That is not what "irrelevant" meansThey said it was irrelevant (=does not carry any information) in French and that is certainly so.
Yes, that in exactly what "irrelevant in a language" means. "Irrelevant in a language" is not the same as "irrelevant" per se.That is not what "irrelevant" means
I'd say most if not all medieval samples you find of encor(a) or encar(a) are Aragonese or influence from it.In Spanish post-tonic syllables were dropped too, ancla. There is no equivalent to encore/ancora in this language to make a comparison (in some old Spanish text I remember seeing encor but it could be dialectal),
This is mostly true in French as well. The particularity of French is that syllables after the stressed one got lost or were deduced to a terminal Schwa and then mostly lost. This is probably why stress eventually become non-phonemic because it became so regular.n words inherited from latin, the stress syllable is generally the same as in other romance languages.
Latin derived words like terminer, which seem to defy this rule, are usually re-borrowings and not inherited words.(un) 'term(e) / ( un) 'término
Thank you for the English lesson, berndfYes, that in exactly what "irrelevant in a language" means. "Irrelevant in a language" is not the same as "irrelevant" per se.
We are talking about technical terms in linguistics (phonology to be precise) here. This is not about "English lessons".Thank you for the English lesson, berndf
Yes, it's relevant, because when there's a stress, it's higher than elsewhere.I don't think it's irrelevant, it is just that syllable stress in French is not a property of each word per se but it can be just about anywhere (or nowhere) depending on the context. It is certainly the case that when confronted with a systematically accented foreign language such as English or Latin, most native French speakers seem to be completely at sea as far as accentuation is concerned. This is beautifully illustrated by Poulenc's bizarre accentuation in his wonderful Gloria. (His lau'damus 'te, benedici'mus te is particularly endearing)
Like where? Can you give a word where stress is phonemic? (The topic here is stress and not tone and word stress and not sentence stress.)Yes, it's relevant, because when there's a stress, it's higher than elsewhere.
With all due respect berndf it is not in the usual courteous spirit of this forum for a native German speaker to suggest, even if it were true, that he knows more about the meaning of English words than a native English speaker.We are talking about technical terms in linguistics (phonology to be precise) here. This is not about "English lessons".
Again, we are not talking about the meaning of a common English word but of a technical term. That is one of the reasons, by scientists usually prefer artificial terms because they avoid such misunderstandings. If common terms or re-used as scientific technical terms they invariably have a narrower meaning than in common language.With all due respect berndf it is not in the usual courteous spirit of this forum for a native German speaker to suggest, even if it were true, that he knows more about the meaning of English words than a native English speaker.
In Italian, the stress is low or high?Here in Italy there's a strong perception of French stressed on the last syllable; this is particular evident with Italian names pronounced by the French: Platinì, Bianchì, and so on.
Stress is neither high nor low. Tone is high or low. Those are different things.In Italian, the stress is low or high?
I can say that in Russian tone surely isn't defined by stress, and yet stressed syllables tend to be focal points of intonational patterns, that is, tone has something to do with stress after all. I suppose it's more or less the same in most European languages.In most European languages, tone distinguishes sentence types and has nothing to do with stress.
Yes, tonal information usually coded in stressed syllables. In my language it is the same. The tonal difference between... in Russian ... yet stressed syllables tend to be focal points of intonational patterns... I suppose it's more or less the same in most European languages.
France, principally.Where are French words stressed?
Hi, do French people from Normandie pronounce the word “tempête” with a long and stressed ê?They are sometimes stressed in England as well, and maybe even more so
What about a rendezvous in a chateau?
According to Warnant, yes, long vowels do exist in French: teillage is pronounced [tɛjaːʒ(ǝ)]. As far as tempête is concerned, there's no long vowel: [tɑ̃pɛt(ǝ)].Do we have long and stressed vowels in French?
At some time in the development of modern French there was phonemically relevant lengthening of the vowel before a lost s and the ^ was more than pure orthographic convention. This manifested in minimal pairs like maître and mettre. I have asked around quite a bit but not found any French person who still maintained this distinction. But in other French speaking regions this distinction might still be alive.According to Warnant, yes, long vowels do exist in French: teillage is pronounced [tɛjaːʒ(ǝ)]. As far as tempête is concerned, there's no long vowel: [tɑ̃pɛt(ǝ)].
Fête = fightThe distinction is still alive in Canadian French : mettre ≠ maître ; prète ≠ prête ; faite ≠ fête ; trempette ≠ tempête. The long vowel even tends to diphtong to [aj], though it is considered a vicious prononciation to be corrected in formal speech.