where are you going?

Hello everyone,

What is the difference between "Gdzie idziesz" and "Dokad idziesz"?

Spanish: ¿Adónde vas?
German: Wohin gehst du?

The two above are literally "To where do you go?". However, English does not write "to" explicitly, rather, it is implied.

I have heard the Polish phrases used interchangeably.

Thanks,
Drei
 
  • Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    drei_lengua said:
    Hello everyone,

    What is the difference between "Gdzie idziesz" and "Dokad idziesz"?

    Spanish: ¿Adónde vas?
    German: Wohin gehst du?

    The two above are literally "To where do you go?". However, English does not write "to" explicitly, rather, it is implied.

    I have heard the Polish phrases used interchangeably.

    Thanks,
    Drei
    If Polish is like Czech, "Gdzie idziesz" (= wo gehst du?) is wrong but extremely common.

    Jana
     

    Little_Me

    Senior Member
    Poland, Polish
    Jana337 said:
    If Polish is like Czech, "Gdzie idziesz" (= wo gehst du?) is wrong but extremely common.

    Jana
    That's true! Although "Gdzie idziesz?" is actually wrong (according to the Dictionary of Polish language by PWN), it is absolutely, as Jana said, and extremely common, especially in informal speech and among young people:) I've never thought about that problem, but it is very interesting and surprising! "Dokąd idziesz?" is correct phrase, but I guess I never use it...:D Maybe because it sounds quite formal and serious? Too sophisticated for me;)
    And about the difference, I think there is no real difference between them, except the subjective feeling of formality/informality, in both the important thing is only the question of the destination.
    Greetings from Lil' Me:)
     

    cajzl

    Senior Member
    Czech
    Interestingly, the corresponding wrong Czech phrase "Kde jdeš?" is never used in Prague. I heard it only in Moravia.
     
    Thanks everyone. I will use the formal one then because I like to use the correct form. This makes me think about the English. We never say "To where are you going?". However, "where" implies remaining in place while of course "to where" implies the actual motion. Both Spanish and German are logical but English is not. I will have to open a thread in the English forum.

    Thanks again,
    Drei
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    drei_lengua said:
    Hello everyone,

    What is the difference between "Gdzie idziesz" and "Dokad idziesz"?

    Spanish: ¿Adónde vas?
    German: Wohin gehst du?

    The two above are literally "To where do you go?". However, English does not write "to" explicitly, rather, it is implied.

    I have heard the Polish phrases used interchangeably.

    Thanks,
    Drei
    Hello Drei,


    To my ears both are correct. The first one is much more often used in Polish than the alternative you gave in your post, at least where I live (if we are talking about spoken language).

    I couldn’t believe that PWN says „gdzie idziesz” is wrong, so I checked and didn’t find anything like that.

    Please have a look at this:

    Ej, ty na szybkim koniu, gdzie pędzisz kozacze? (Malczewski)
    (Słownik języka polskiego, PWN - gdzie)

    This example sentence simply confirms that “gdzie idziesz” is correct (literary the underlined part means-where are you running—which is another verb of motion).

    Another dictionary by PWN (Słownik poprawnej polszczyzny, Warszawa 1996-which is a kind of a guidance on the usage of correct Polish) says:
    Dokąd 1. <<zaimek zastępujący wyrażenie oznaczające cel przestrzenny>>: a) <<w zdaniach mających formę pytania>>: Dokąd idziesz? (a. Gdzie idziesz?)
    a.=albo (Eng. - or)

    Another dictionary of Polish language by Wilga (Warszawa, 1996) gives such a definition of gdzie:
    1. używany w pytaniach zawiera skierowaną do rozmówcy prośbę o wskazanie miejsca dziania się lub położenia czegoś, cel ruchu lub trasę ruchu; w jakim miejscu; dokąd, którędy’: Gdzie mieszkasz? Gdzie idziesz? Gdzie jedzie ten autobus? [...]

    I cannot discern any difference between the examples you gave (maybe except for a little formal style of Dokąd idziesz?).
    The difference may be similar to the one between these two sentences in English, I think:
    Where are you going? Gdzie idziesz?
    Where are you going to? Dokąd idziesz?
    If you use the second one and if you see a difference between them, the difference between the Polish sentences in question is very likely to be similar or even the same.

    Both are equally correct and you can use any of them.

    Regards,
    Thomas
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Now that's interesting. :) Cajzl is right; "kde jdeš?" is a Moravian phenomenon, and Moravia is way more exposed to Polish influences (because there are not so many mountains in the way).

    However, I did some perfunctory googling when this question appeared, and some results "seemed" (conditional upon my understanding of Polish texts) to confirm that "Gdzie idziesz?" is not correct.

    This link suggests that the question is worth asking in a test. Which arouses my suspicion. :)

    Other links that I think are interesting: here, here, here.

    Jana
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Jana337 said:
    Now that's interesting. :) Cajzl is right; "kde jdeš?" is a Moravian phenomenon, and Moravia is way more exposed to Polish influences (because there are not so many mountains in the way).

    However, I did some perfunctory googling when this question appeared, and some results "seemed" (conditional upon my understanding of Polish texts) to confirm that "Gdzie idziesz?" is not correct.

    This link suggests that the question is worth asking in a test. Which arouses my suspicion. :)

    Other links that I think are interesting: here, here, here.

    Jana
    OK. Let’s deal with them in order of appearance.

    Poprawna odpowiedź jest dokładnie jedna.
    http://www.mat.edu.pl/

    The site with test says that there’s just one answer which is correct.

    18. Co powiesz na temat form: gdzie idziesz, dokąd idziesz ?
    A. obie są poprawne
    B. poprawna jest tylko forma gdzie idziesz
    C. tylko jedna z nich jest poprawna
    D. poprawna jest tylko forma dokąd idziesz
    What can you tell about the forms: gdzie idziesz, dokąd idziesz ?
    • both are correct
    • gdzie idziesz is the only correct form
    • just one form is correct
    • dokąd idziesz is the only correct form
    Logically concluding, if just one answer is correct we have to choose A since if we pick anyone of the rest three than we have one more that is correct and that’s impossible according to what they say. :)
    The test was constructed for pupils from fourth grade of primary school


    Now, the one titled “quo vadis” (BTW: good name for our topic thread ;))

    Miroslaw Nazielski—the author of the paragraph is suggesting/proposing that the Polish Language Society object using gdzie and dokąd (along with their derivates) as synonyms and make a list of verbs which should be used with each word.


    The third site you gave is very interesting and this one I liked the most. :)

    The author—Grzegorz Jagodziński is commenting upon the internet site content by none other than Mirosław Nazielski. :)

    He disagrees with him on the matter depicted on his Net site—quo vadis.
    Podobnie poprawne jest[...] gdzie idziesz zamiast dokąd idziesz (i to chyba także w normie wzorcowej!).
    Likewise, it’s is correct to replace gdzie idziesz with dokąd idziesz


    And the fourth link is the same as the first one.


    Regards,
    Thomas
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Logically concluding, if just one answer is correct we have to choose A since if we pick anyone of the rest three than we have one more that is correct and that’s impossible according to what they say. :)
    :eek: :eek: :eek: It's not like the text was too difficult for me to understand; I simply didn't bother to read the questions.

    Now I am a believer. Thanks, Thomas. :D

    Jana
     

    Little_Me

    Senior Member
    Poland, Polish
    Thomas1 said:
    The site with test says that there’s just one answer which is correct.

    What can you tell about the forms: gdzie idziesz, dokąd idziesz ?
    • both are correct
    • gdzie idziesz is the only correct form
    • just one form is correct
    • dokąd idziesz is the only correct form
    Logically concluding, if just one answer is correct we have to choose A since if we pick anyone of the rest three than we have one more that is correct and that’s impossible according to what they say. :)
    The test was constructed for pupils from fourth grade of primary school
    No guys, something is wrong. Thomas, you're not right saying that the site with test Omnibus 2001 says that only one answer can be corect! They say: "Pamiętaj, że każda z odpowiedzi A, B, C, D może być fałszywa lub prawdziwa" and in another Jana's link they clearly inform: "Testy konkursowe (Omnibus, Mat, Sprachdoktor, English Ace) dla wszystkich, są testami wielokrotnego wyboru i zawierają 28 pytań (zadań) z odpowiedziami A, B, C, D, z których każda może być prawdziwa lub fałszywa." So, theoretically, in that question, 2 answers could be right (C and D: only one answer is correct and only "dokąd idziesz" is correct)- if you have any doubts, look at the next question no.19! All 4 answers are correct, I have no doubts since I live in this beautiful city:)
    But anyway, it still can mean nothing, 'cause coming back to main problem, I read in another (newer than my previous) dictionary that "gdzie" is mostly connected with place and more rarely with direction (like "dokąd" is). But there is nothing about being wrong and unacceptable form so I guess "gdzie idzisz" is not wrong indeed.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Hello Littleme,

    It’s true that there can be more than one correct answer in the test. Yesterday, I was browsing the home page of the society which makes these tests and it gives the rules of correct answers to their all tests. They make tests on various domains of school education. I failed to see that the rules I read about refer to other fields, this was a silly boob ;) which I apologize for.
    Nevertheless, the answer to the 18th question is still correct as well as you later noted the correctness of “gdzie idziesz”. :).

    I have been also thinking of what you wrote and it seems plausible that “gdzie idziesz” used to be treated as an erroneous collocation. Could you please tell me which dictionary by PWN says that the phrase “gdzie idziesz” is wrong (I’m especially interested in the year of publishing)?

    Regards,
    Thomas
     

    Little_Me

    Senior Member
    Poland, Polish
    Thomas1 said:
    I have been also thinking of what you wrote and it seems plausible that “gdzie idziesz” used to be treated as an erroneous collocation. Could you please tell me which dictionary by PWN says that the phrase “gdzie idziesz” is wrong (I’m especially interested in the year of publishing)?

    Regards,
    Thomas
    Hello Thomas,
    Ehh, I wish I could help you and answer your question, but I'm afraid I can't... :eek: :eek: I feel ashamed, 'cause the dictionary that I mentioned at the beginning and I was refering to, is something that I found at my grandma's house while searching not-on-line dictionary: it has no few first pages (even cover...), some others are missing too and in general, it's in very poor condition. And now, when you asked me about it, I realised that I don't even know if it's really published by PWN, beacuse I just assumed it without hesitation (I feel so bad, I behaved like an ignorant:( )... I asked my grandma about it, but she could only say that this dictionary is from about 50s, 60s and had green cover...:eek: I remember that it was written there that the proper question is "dokąd idziesz" (if we want to know the destination) and question starting with "gdzie...?" is connected with place of something, not direction. So I'm sorry, but that's all I can say:(
    But the fact is, that the newest PWN dictionary doesn't say "gdzie idziesz?" is wrong, you are obviosly right, I checked it.
    Still, I made some other search and I found on PWN site the place where you can ask a question connected with language and the specialist (linguist) will answer you and I found this:

    http://slowniki.pwn.pl/poradnia/lista.php?szukaj=gdzie%B6&kat=4
    (below the topic :"gdzieś czy dokądś")
    So I guess, at the end we can say, that both forms are corect, but everything depends on the context and degree of formality... Do you agree with me? Please, tell me how would you comment all this things? Greetings
    Little_Me
     
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