Where are you taking me?

lluvioso1

Senior Member
Turkish
Hello,

I want to say informally to a person "Where are you taking me? Please, can you take me somewhere far away from them?"

Here is my try: "Hová viszel? Kérlek, el tudnál vinni valahová messzire tőlük?"

Is it correct? I am not sure if indefinite 2nd person singular informal verb conjugation is the right choice for both visz and tud.

Thank you.
 
  • AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Interesting. So "me" is not considered definite?
    Yes, it is a rather strange grammar feature.
    If an indefinite form of a transitive verb is used without an explicit object, the meaning "me" (=engem) is usually implied.

    Hová viszel (engem)? = Where are you taking me?
    Hallasz (engem)? = Can you hear me?
    Szeretsz (engem)? = Do you love me?
    Nem hívtál (engem). = You didn't call me.
     

    elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Yes, it is a rather strange grammar feature.
    Interesting.

    Hebrew requires the preposition את ("et") before definite direct objects, so in a way, you can think of [verb + את/"et"] as equivalent to the Hungarian definite conjugation, and [verb + ] as equivalent to the indefinite conjugation.

    ראיתי ילד ("raiti yeled") = I saw a boy.
    ראיתי את הילד ("raiti et ha-yeled") = I saw the boy.
    ראיתי את שרה ("raiti et Sara") = I saw Sara.

    Direct object pronouns all start with אות- ("ot-"), which is etymologically derived from את ("et"), or את- ("et-"), which is also (and more obviously) derived from את ("et"). This means that direct object pronouns are considered definite, unlike in Hungarian.

    ראיתי אותו ("raiti oto") = I saw him.
    ראיתי אתכם ("raiti etxem") = I saw you [plural].
     

    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    This means that direct object pronouns are considered definite, unlike in Hungarian.
    Only the first person direct object pronouns ("me" and "us") go with indefinite verb forms, the others require definite ones.

    Szeretsz (engem)? = Do you love me?

    but:

    Szereted (őt)? = Do you love him/her?

    It's mind-boggling for learners.:eek:
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Terminologically, the definite and indefinite conjugation are not quite correct, that's why today rather the terms "általános igeragozás (=general conjugation)" and "határozott igeragozás (=definite conjugation)" are used.

    I know that this does not resolve all the problems ;), but it may help to understand better the logic of the Hungarian grammar.

    Interesting. So "me" is not considered definite?
    I´d say that in case of "me" there is no need to accentuate the definiteness, or to distinguish between the two possibilities. It is spontaneously considered a "general conjugation", the same way as e.g. in case of intransitive verbs (that do not have any object), e.g. megy, áll, sétál, fut, jár, eszik, .....
     
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    numerator

    Senior Member
    Hungarian, Slovak
    Only the first person direct object pronouns ("me" and "us") go with indefinite verb forms, the others require definite ones.

    But @AndrasBP, don't 2nd-person objects also require indefinite forms?
    My understanding is that the definite verb forms are only used with 3rd-person definite objects.

    You were focusing on 1st-person subjects but that obscures the issue because then there is a special form (-lak/-lek) for 2nd-person objects. But suppose we look at 3rd-person subjects:

    Hová visz? is, to me, ambiguous between Where is he/she taking you? and Where is he/she taking me?
    (and, using the polite 3rd-person form of address, Where are you (stranger) taking me?)

    Hová visz a barátod nyaralni? - does not mean I expect your boyfriend to take me somewhere...

    Semmi gond, nem lát a tanár could equally mean No problem, the teacher can't see you / the teacher can't see me / can't see (intransitive - is blind)...

    I'm asking other native speakers to confirm as my nyelvérzék has just been proven distinctly regional by another thread :)
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Hello numerator,
    Your nyelvérzék is right and your examples are flawless (n.9). AndrasBP just tried to answer you strictly according to the question in your original post (as it is required here).
    But @AndrasBP, don't 2nd-person objects also require indefinite forms?
    They would, but mostly sentences like that are meaningless when the subject and the object are both second person (Singular or Plural), the same applies when the subject and the object are both 1st person (Singular or Plural, subject or object) (1), except when reflexive pronouns are used (2).

    Both subject and ojbect are 1st person (Singular or Plural - I don't give an example here for all the permutations)
    1. *Viszek/látok engem/minket. (It does not exist: I carry/see "me" or "us", neither if the subject is 1st person Plural.)
    2. Viszem/Látom magamat or magunkat. (Direct conjugation with the reflexive pronouns: I carry/see myself or ourselves.)

    Subject: 1st pers, object: (Singuar or Plural) 2nd pers.
    1. Viszlek/Látlak téged/titeket (The l indicates that the object is you -Sing. or Plural- a "special feature" in our conjugation.)
    I carry/see you.

    Both subject and object are 2nd pers. (Singular or Plural)
    1. *Viszel/Látsz téged/titeket. (It does not exist: "You carry/see you.")
    2. Viszed/Látod magadat/magatokat. (Direct conjugation with the reflexive pronouns) You carry/see yourself or yourselves.

    Subject: 3rd person (Sing. or Plural), object: 1st or 2nd person Sigular or Plural -> indirect conjugation
    E.g. Lát engem, de téged is. (He can see me but you as well. - This may not be a happy translation...)
    Visz minket és titeket is. (He'll take/carry us and you - all of you - as well.)

    Subject: 3rd person (Sing. or Plural), object: 3rd person (Sing. or Plural) -> direct conjugation


    Hová visz? is, to me, ambiguous between Where is he/she taking you? and Where is he/she taking me?
    (and, using the polite 3rd-person form of address, Where are you (stranger) taking me?)
    You are right but in a face to face conversation such sentences tend to be clear (context, mimics etc. are great helpers). However, in a written form one has to be careful to be clear enough.

    Edit: I used "direct conjugation" (why...?) by which I meant (according to the old terms) "objective conjugation".
     
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