Which Greek is used in learned neologisms?

[LoQuelcomiste]

Hi,

So I was wondering... In Academia, Greek and Latin have been very productive in coining new terms, almost always by people who didn't speak them as a first language, if at all. Latin (in its New Latin form, at least) seems to me to be quite monolithical, but, as for Greek, I know that several quite different varieties have existed: the different dialects of Ancient Greek, Koiné, as well as different codifications of Modern Greek.

I imagined that (outside of ecclesiastical terminology or words inherited trough Late Latin, wich would use Koiné) Attic Greek would be used, as it is the most prestigious variant of Ancient Greek (to match Latin). Words like glottophobia (or glottis, for that matter), for instance, come from Attic glottos, where other variants would have glossos.

But, then, other words like glossopharyngeal (from glossos, not glottos) or thalassemia, thalassocracy (from thalassa, not thalatta) don't fit in, I'm guessing they com from Koiné, Ionic, Medieval or Modern Greek instead?

So this all brings me to the question: which(s) variant(s) of Greek was or were used, and are used today, to coin learned neologisms? Does it follow any rules at all?

Thank you very much! Efharistò!

PS: Please excuse my absolute ignorance on the subject and on the language!

 

[berndf]

But, then, other words like glossopharyngeal (from glossos, not glottos) or thalassemia, thalassocracy (from thalassa, not thalatta) don't fit in, I'm guessing they com from Koiné, Ionic, Medieval or Modern Greek instead?

Glottos and thalatta are the Attic forms of these words in Ancient Greek. The variants with double sigma are the Ionic variants, which dominated Koine and hence Modern Greek. But both forms are rooted in classical era Greek.

 

[apmoy70]

If I could make a guess, Philippe Blanchet used the Attic form of language and coined the neologism glottophobia (although we Modern Greek native speakers turned it into its Classical counterpart and call linguistic xenophobia as γλωσσοφοβία (in English it's glossophobia I suppose)) following the tradittion of Attic predilection amongst Academia; glottis is an example (which just means little tongue in Ancient Greek), the Attic form of γλωσσίς (and since 1570 the standard name of the vocal apparatus in the larynx). Interestingly enough, in MoGr we use the international term γλωττίς /ɣloˈtis/ (fem.) or (colloq.) γλωττίδα /ɣloˈtiða/ (fem.) in anatomy, in parallel with γλωσσίδι /ɣloˈsiði/ (neut.) or γλωσσίδα /ɣloˈsiða/ (fem.) = mouthpiece of a wind instrument, clearly from its Ionic/Classical counterpart, γλωσσίς.

 

[LoQuelcomiste]

If I could make a guess, Philippe Blanchet used the Attic form of language and coined the neologism glottophobia (although we Modern Greek native speakers turned it into its Classical counterpart and call linguistic xenophobia as γλωσσοφοβία (in English it's glossophobia I suppose)) following the tradittion of Attic predilection amongst Academia; glottis is an example (which just means little tongue in Ancient Greek), the Attic form of γλωσσίς (and since 1570 the standard name of the vocal apparatus in the larynx). Interestingly enough, in MoGr we use the international term γλωττίς /ɣloˈtis/ (fem.) or (colloq.) γλωττίδα /ɣloˈtiða/ (fem.) in anatomy, in parallel with γλωσσίδι /ɣloˈsiði/ (neut.) or γλωσσίδα /ɣloˈsiða/ (fem.) = mouthpiece of a wind instrument, clearly from its Ionic/Classical counterpart, γλωσσίς.

Hey, when you say "Classical", what do you mean?

It is my understanding that the σσ both antecedes ττ (as in proto-Attic-Ionic would already have it this way) and lasts over it as it is also the one used in Koiné, Byzantine and Modern Greek. However, I don't know of any form of codified supra-dialectal Greek before Koiné (which I understand to be mainly based in Attic but "simplified", thus the loss of ττ), and other dialects had their own special characteristics, too. So... is it Koiné(-ish) that the other terms take as a basis? Is it rather Ionic(-ish)? Is it a constructed mix that was never really used in the Hellenic world, based on whatever Classical Greek the Western academics had at hand?

I suspect it's a fair bit of Attic and a fair bit of Koiné, mostly, but I'm curious as to why isn't it more rigidly one or another...

 

[apmoy70]

Hey, when you say "Classical", what do you mean?

It is my understanding that the σσ both antecedes ττ (as in proto-Attic-Ionic would already have it this way) and lasts over it as it is also the one used in Koiné, Byzantine and Modern Greek. However, I don't know of any form of codified supra-dialectal Greek before Koiné (which I understand to be mainly based in Attic but "simplified", thus the loss of ττ), and other dialects had their own special characteristics, too. So... is it Koiné(-ish) that the other terms take as a basis? Is it rather Ionic(-ish)? Is it a constructed mix that was never really used in the Hellenic world, based on whatever Classical Greek the Western academics had at hand?

I suspect it's a fair bit of Attic and a fair bit of Koiné, mostly, but I'm curious as to why isn't it more rigidly one or another...

Classical is not exactly Attic, it's based on it but with differences e.g. the usage of the Ionic mostly -σσ- instead of Attic -ττ-, the usage of Ionic -ρσ- instead of Attic -ῤῥ- plus a couple of "Doricisms/Aeolicisms" e.g. the usage of -ᾱ instead of -η, «οἰκίᾱ» instead of «οἰκίη», «χώρᾱ» instead of «χώρη». Philip of Macedon made "Classical" Greek the official language in his kingdom, and from there it became the official language of the Hellenic League

 

[LoQuelcomiste]

Classical is not exactly Attic, it's based on it but with differences (e.g. the usage of the Ionic mostly -σσ- instead of Attic -ττ-, the usage of Ionic -ρσ- instead of Attic -ῤῥ-) plus a couple of "Doricisms/Aeolicisms" (e.g. the usage of -ᾱ instead of -η, «οἰκίᾱ» instead of «οἰκίη», «χώρᾱ» instead of «χώρη»). Philip of Macedon made "Classical" Greek the official language in his kingdom, and from there it became the official language of the Hellenic League

So, that's Koiné by another name, then, no?

 

[apmoy70]

So, that's Koiné by another name, then, no?

Hmm, is it? I think Koine has come to mean the creolisation of the Greek language after the death of Alexander. A couple of Ionicisms or Doricisms here and there doesn't make it Koine (imho). But, if you mean Koine the political tool used by a hegemon in order to achieve a "common" (pun intended) goal (as was Philip's intention, to unite the Greek world against Persia, and language was one of his tools), then I agree

 

[berndf]

What we both meant by "classical" was before the era before the Macedonian conquest and Koine is what came after. "Classical" is sometimes equated with Attic but this was never the whole story. Ionic Greek was just as "classic" as Attic Greek.

 

[Perseas]

Words like glottophobia (or glottis, for that matter), for instance, come from Attic glottos, where other variants would have glossos.

Glottos and thalatta are the Attic forms of these words in Ancient Greek.

Do you mean -glottos/-glossos as a component of a compound word?

 

[berndf]

Do you mean -glottos/-glossos as a component of a compound word?

Yes. Or glotto-/glosso- like in like glottophobia.

 

[fdb]

The word for tongue/language is in fact glōssa, Attic glōtta, not glossos; feminine first declension. But in compounds it is common to treat the vorderglied as if it were a second-declension noun, hence glōsso- (glōtto-).

 

[bearded]

Glottos and thalatta are the Attic forms of these words in Ancient Greek. The variants with double sigma are the Ionic variants, which dominated Koine and hence Modern Greek

How can it be explained that in Modern Greek the verb πράττω (pratto = to act) has retained the ancient Attic double t (ταυ) and did not become 'prasso'? I vaguely remember that this was already discussed a long time ago in the forum, but apparently there was no really satisfactory explanation.

 

[berndf]

According to Wiktionary it is a loan from Attic Ancient Greek (rather than an inheritance from Koine Greek).

 

[apmoy70]

^^Yeah, it's a remnant of Katharevousa Greek (alongside πλήττω = to strike instead of πλήσσω, περιττός = superfluous, uneven number instead of περισσός); interestingly enough περιττός exists in parallel with περίσσεια (fem.) = overstuffing, redundancy and περίσσευμα (neut.) = surplus, excess (the latter two are inherited from the Koine language)

 

[sotos]

How can it be explained that in Modern Greek the verb πράττω (pratto = to act) has retained the ancient Attic double t (ταυ) and did not become 'prasso'? I vaguely remember that this was already discussed a long time ago in the forum, but apparently there was no really satisfactory explanation.

Possibly to avoid confusion with πράσω (to buy).