Why do subtitles and dubbed audio often differ?

drei_lengua

drei_lengua

Senior Member
Back on the East Coast, United States of America
English, United States
Hello everyone,

I noticed that when you watch a movie with dubbed audio and put the subtitles on they often disagree. This is the case at least with many American movies with dubbed Spanish audio and Spanish subtitles.

Is this because the dubbed audio and the subtitles are produced by different companies? Wouldn't you think that they would agree? Kind of weird...

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Drei
 
    • Hi there, I can answer this one for you rather quickly, I know I have already explained this in another thread, but I'm not sure where that thread is.

    Subtitles and dubbing have different characteristics: When you subtitle, you are limited by the nuber of characters ou can put in each subtitle, and the amount of time the subtitle will stay on the screen (which is also a function of the scene: normally, a subtitle does not overlap from one scene to the next). So timing is a big issue, how long does the viewer have to read the title, and how much info do you have to convey in each title?

    When you dub, you have a different set of problems: You gotta' try and match up the mouth movement (obviously). The biggest part of this is matching the "labial" consonants such as p, b, v. Then there are the s's, l's, and o's, and so on and so forth. And of course, there is timing - not the same timing as for subtitles, because this timing must match up not with a number of characters or scene changes, but with what the actors' mouths are doing.

    So, and I wish I had an example here for you, you have two different sets of consideratons... and, subtitles and dubbing texts are usually not written by the same person at the same time: Usually the titles are already written when the dubbing person starts working. And the dubber MUST adapt the text to match the lip and mouth movements. Ideally, the difference is minimal - but sometimis it can go pretty far.

    I hope that quick explanation helped. I found this link http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=109809&highlight=subtitling to a very good thread that answers your qestion with an excellent example! I wrote a detailed answer there.
     
    Dr. Quizá said:
    That makes sense, but sometimes I see something like this:

    Dub: Where is your sister?
    Sub: Nice trousers, dude.

    :confused:
    Click to expand...

    Ok, but if you mean that in the Spanish version, the translations equal the above English sentences, then tell me what the Spanish versions are. Then the explanation will probably be clear, like in the example in the other thread.

    Of course, sometimes translators do poor work, like in any job. There is no excuse for it, but it does happen that the work is of poor quality, and that is a shame. But oftentimes there are explanations for the discrepencies.
     
    Sometimes the difference between the subtitles and dubbed audio can attribute to cultural difference.
    I remember our class were watching Friends one day. Someone mentioned the word "stripper". Well, when I looked at the subtitle, I thought my eyes were cheating me! The translation of this word was nowhere near its real meaning. :D
    The translator is probably fifty or sixty years old.;)

    edit: I made a mistake. I confused dubbed audio with the original audio, but my point still applies.
     
    Sorry :eek: but may I butt in on your thread to ask a another question about this topic? I've also noticed that if a movie has a lot of swearing in it, the dubbing seems to pick this up, but the subtitles will often leave out all swear words or substitute a very mild exclamation (I won't give examples :eek: ). Is this done for space or for censors?
     
    Probably most often for space reasons - explitives are often not crucial to understanding what has been said so they're some of the first to go... And maybe also - in the case of US movies subtitled to be shown elsewhere, people all around the word are generally familiar with the top 5 or so big bad cuss words, and they will hear and understand them without the need for subtitles...

    Maybe also censorship, depending on the country, or if its for the US? in order to more neatly fit into the rating system?
     
    Yes, I believe so. Sometimes R rated movies will be shown on general TV, and swear words must be changed out for milder forms of the same expletive.

    A dubbed over series that I love watching is The Iron Chef from Japan. The translation and use of descriptive terms for food are quite entertaining!
     
    Hi Drei.
    Just dropping by to add a hands-on perspective to the very good answer Badgrammar has already provided...

    I have translated "final audio" on certain documentaries and/or TV specials for close captioning purposes. These, of course, are the lines of text intended to follow (as close as possible) what's being said in every scene for the benefit of hearing-impaired audiences.

    While some producers tend to include the full translated text in each scene, we must remember that when you are writing close captioning from English to Spanish, the Spanish text is always somewhat longer (around 20% longer, sentence-wise) so in some instances the Spanish gets edited or simplified in order to be comfortably legible within the length of the scene. I have seen some sentences been 'simplified' or 'pared down' in order to be legible within the 5 or 6 seconds scene 36-A may last onscreen.
    That's regarding close captioning...

    Now, re: dubbing... while it's perhaps more desirable that the dubbing convey the same message (or at least as close as possible) to what's being originally said on the scene, the same time constraints apply (it takes longer to utter a complete sentence in Spanish, whereas English lends itself to more 'telegraphic' utterances).

    PLUS... there is also the matter of what around here we call Cue-Lock or Q-Lock --the need for the voice over to have some sort of synch with the mouth movements of the actors. That sometimes forces a dubber to cut down the voice-over content for the sake of video-audio synchronicity... as failure to do so would result in those comical dubbing glitches seen in cliché martial arts movies, where you still hear the voice over even when the actor on the scene stopped moving his/her lips. This sort of thing has been made fun of in countless comedy skits (maybe you've seen one of these parodies on Saturday Night Live or some other comedy show). ;)

    Saludos,
    LN
     
    I've started watching all my Hollywood DVDs with the Spanish subtitles on.

    I notice that when I turn on the Spanish audio, it doesn't match up with the Spanish subtitles. Why is that?

    My guesses:

    1) The translations are done by two diff. companies, who don't coordinate.

    2) The audio dub is more constrained by trying to match gestures, timing, and emphasis -- trying to match a nod, or glance, or finger pointing with the right word.

    Are there other reasons? For example I've noticed on some recent DVDs that some of the vocab is more Mexican (according to this forum), which makes sense since I live in America. Are there different versions of Hollywood DVDs sold in different regions with different Spanish dialects? I know I've found multiple versions of Disney movies before (one with Latin Spanish, one with European Spanish.)

    Also, is either one (subtitles vs audio dub) usually more accurate and better to learn from?

    Thanks.

    ps. I wasn't sure which forum this question should go in. My apologies if I chose the incorrect one. Thanks again.
     
    Subtitles and audio dubs (for any language) just have different priorities. Dubbed dialogue, like you mentioned, is written so that it matches the visuals as closely as possible. Phrases can change substantially so that the target language version still corresponds closely with the mouth movements, etc.

    Subtitles have more latitude for a closer rendering of the original language, but they also must be very concise since you have to be able to read them in the time it would take to hear the language, and we usually read more slowly than we process aurally.

    My understanding is that subtitles make fewer sacrifices, generally, for aesthetic concerns than dubbing does, so I would think they'd be a better tool for study. Plus, you're experiencing two languages simultaneously instead of just one. However, subtitlers do still have priorities above giving the exact linguistic equivalent, so they're not particularly trustworthy for learning a language.... I would recommend watching as much originally-Spanish-language movies and programs, also, as a way to learn the language, because then you're experiencing stuff that was created originally within that language instead of derivatively trying to approximate another language.
     
    I've also noticed this. 'Lip synch' is clearly more important for the audio dubbing. I guess the subtitlers listen to the original script and translate more accurately.

    You're lucky...most UK DVDs don't have Spanish subtitles/audio, which is a real shame, from a Spanish-learning perspective.
     
    Are there different versions of Hollywood DVDs sold in different regions with different Spanish dialects? I know I've found multiple versions of Disney movies before (one with Latin Spanish, one with European Spanish.)
    Click to expand...

    I'am not sure, but yes. "European Spanish" is, as far as I know, basically the spanish spoken in Spain.

    In América Latina we have the so-called "español neutro". Wich is a spanish "free" of regional accents and word.

    ... After all, (in theory = far from reality) you can't play an Eourpean DVD (zone 2) on a DVD player in América Latina (zone 4).

    Also, is either one (subtitles vs audio dub) usually more accurate and better to learn from?
    Click to expand...

    Well, I'am not learning spanish, but what I do (with english) and I think you should do is:

    Start with english audio and spanish subtitles. Then, when you realize that you understand what they are saying, use spanish audio and enlgish subtitles.

    Saludetes.
     
    As for the part of the question about having different vocabulary words from different countries, they do vary. In the US the subtitles and dubbed movies mainly use Mexican vocabulary, while in Spain the US movies are dubbed and subtitled in Spain Spanish.

    I would have to disagree with Lord Delfos that in Latin America they speak "español neutro". Every country and region has their own accent and I have heard very strong accents from Argentines.
     
    Masood said:
    You're lucky...most UK DVDs don't have Spanish subtitles/audio, which is a real shame, from a Spanish-learning perspective.
    Click to expand...

    Over here it seems all the big new blockbusters have English, French, and Spanish. And the CGI family cartoon movies do, too.

    More middling fare, especially slightly cheesy scifi and action movies, which I like, usually just have English and French.

    A big advantage in the US for Spanish is my basic digital cable has 3 Spanish channels - Telemundo, Univision, and another I can't remember. Also the HBO channels have one in Spanish, and all the other HBO channels broadcast both English and Spanish closed captioning - word for word transcription of what's being said, which is fantastic for learning.

    Of course, the biggest advantage probably is what the TV channels imply, that there is a sizable population of native Spanish speakers in my area.
     
    Masood said:
    I've also noticed this. 'Lip synch' is clearly more important for the audio dubbing. I guess the subtitlers listen to the original script and translate more accurately.

    You're lucky...most UK DVDs don't have Spanish subtitles/audio, which is a real shame, from a Spanish-learning perspective.
    Click to expand...

    I always try to find DVDs with german subtitles in them... but, here in Mexico it seems an impossible task even in German-spoken movies.
     
    Ah, I see my thread got merged with this one.

    I have a related dubbing question. Are DVD's in America typically dubbed in Latin American (or Mexican) Spanish? And are DVDs in Europe dubbed in European Spanish? If I bought Spider-Man 2 on DVD in the US or UK or France would the Spanish dub be different?

    Almost all non-English DVDs that I've watched here in the US are dubbed with American accents. Are they sold in the UK with British accents?


    I'm wondering how fine grained the dubbing gets. One for Mexico and another for South America? Does Australia get it's own English dubs?

    It's some function of market size of course, just curious if anyone here had more info.

    thanks.
     
    I've never seen [heard?] a foreign film that was dubbed in Australian English.

    One of our free-to-air TV channels, SBS, transmits lots of foreign language films and series. They are always sub-titled, never dubbed.

    On cable TV we have "World Movies" which is all foreign-language films. They also are sub-titled.
     
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