Why do you stay in Ukraine?

angmokio

New Member
Vietnamese
How do you say:
1)why do you stay in Ukraine?
2)Have a nice day
in Russian?

thank for helping
thanks
 
  • übermönch

    Senior Member
    World - 1.German, 2.Russian, 3.English
    Зачем тебе остоватся в/на*** украине?
    Всего доброго!* (Хорошего дня!**)


    *"all good", more or less the equivalent of h.a.n.d./best wishes
    **Literal translation of "Have a nice day"; doesn't sound natural IMHO
    *** на (on) is used more often in collequial Russian and sounds more natural. However в (in) would be the correct form.
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    Зачем тебе оставаться в/на*** Украине?
    Всего доброго!* (Хорошего дня!**)
    На Украине sounds more natural for a Russian. The Ukrainians prefer в Украине, and nowadays some Russians, who want to show their friendly attitude owards Ukraine, also say в Украине. But на Украине is absolutely normal, and I would certainly prefer it.
    I'd translate 'Why do you stay in Ukraine' as Почему ты остаёшься на Украине?
    As for the translation for 'Have a nice day', übermönch's suggestions are OK. You can also say, Удачного дня.
    Hope that helps. :)
     

    Insider

    Senior Member
    Ukraine (Ukrainian)
    Hello,

    One friend of mine who is Ukrainian, but his native language is Russian told me that there had been some changes in the rules of Russian, and right now it should be using in spoken and written language в Украине, but not на Украине.

    But I'm not 100% sure. :)
     

    Anita413

    Member
    russian, Russia
    Hello,

    One friend of mine who is Ukrainian, but his native language is Russian told me that there had been some changes in the rules of Russian, and right now it should be using in spoken and written language в Украине, but not на Украине.

    But I'm not 100% sure. :)

    Да, было такое правило. Но это навязчивая идея украинцев после получения ими независимости -- запретить всем говорить "на". Но традицию не так легко переломить. Мне "на" до сих пор режет слух, да, видимо, не только мне, раз по-прежнему чаще пишем и говорим "на", чем "в"
     

    Insider

    Senior Member
    Ukraine (Ukrainian)
    Anita,

    Would you be so kind to re-write your previous post in English, because I'm not sure if I understood clearly the last sentence. Maybe, you've made some mistakes or omitted some words, or my Russian is really poor?

    Insider
     

    Anita413

    Member
    russian, Russia
    Anita,

    Would you be so kind to re-write your previous post in English, because I'm not sure if I understood clearly the last sentence. Maybe, you've made some mistakes or omitted some words, or my Russian is really poor?

    Insider

    Yes, there is the rule you told about. In Ukraine after the country got independance they want everybody say just "в". But it is not simple to break the tradition of saying "на Украине". For me "на" sounds much better than "в" and non only for me if until now most of people keep on saying "на".

    ...Ukraine didn't make this rule, they just want it obey by everybody...
    I dont know if in English I explained more clear:D
     

    Insider

    Senior Member
    Ukraine (Ukrainian)
    Anita,

    Now it looks more clear for me - thank you! :)

    Frankly speaking, it the first time I've heard that Ukraine is trying to command to use "в" instead of "на". Would you b so kind to tell me where you got such information because I'm really interested in it?

    Secondly, I couldn't undertsand why Ukraine obeys Russians to something in their language. For me it's sounds a bit strange. Perhaps, you know some facts that I somehow missed! :)

    Insider
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    Yes, there is the rule you told about. In Ukraine after the country got independance they want everybody say just "в". But it is not simple to break the tradition of saying "на Украине". For me "на" sounds much better than "в" and non only for me if until now most of people keep on saying "на".

    ...Ukraine didn't make this rule, they just want it obey by everybody...
    I dont know if in English I explained more clear:D
    I guess the trouble is that на Украине sounds too alike на окраине (окраина is the outskirts, borderlands, etc). It may remind of the time when Ukraine was a remote province of the Russian Empire, and of course, the modern Ukrainians don't seem to be fond of this thought. :)
    But to me, в Украине sounds rather strange. I strongly prefer на Украине. It's just a tradition of the language!
     

    Insider

    Senior Member
    Ukraine (Ukrainian)
    I guess the trouble is that на Украине sounds too alike на окраине (окраина is the outskirts, borderlands, etc). It may remind of the time when Ukraine was a remote province of the Russian Empire, and of course, the modern Ukrainians don't seem to be fond of this thought. :)
    But to me, в Украине sounds rather strange. I strongly prefer на Украине. It's just a tradition of the language!

    Etcetera,

    Well, believe me "на Украине" doesn't remind me the times of Russian Empire at all. :confused: I also don't think that this problem is mainly discusses in every kind of the conversation between all kind of the Ukrainian people. ;)

    I'm curious because of one fact, why in standart Russian all contries are provided by the preposition "в", and only one country - Ukraine - is an exception. Perhaps, it's even better.
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    For the record, it is not just Russians - we do the same.

    V Rusku, v Polsku - na Slovensku, na Ukrajině.

    Jana
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    Etcetera,

    Well, believe me "на Украине" doesn't remind me the times of Russian Empire at all. :confused: I also don't think that this problem is mainly discusses in every kind of the conversation between all kind of the Ukrainian people. ;)

    I'm curious because of one fact, why in standart Russian all contries are provided by the preposition "в", and only one country - Ukraine - is an exception. Perhaps, it's even better.
    I've given you the explanation I once heard somewhere. In my opinion, it's the best possible. :)
    To say the truth, it just puzzles me that some people take this на Украине as a personal insult. It's just a fact of language, and nothing more. It seems that someone just tries to make it a political issue.
    Interestingly enough, no one of my Ukrainian friends seem to mind the use of на Украине. They themselves say so! :)
     

    Insider

    Senior Member
    Ukraine (Ukrainian)
    For the record, it is not just Russians - we do the same.

    V Rusku, v Polsku - na Slovensku, na Ukrajině.

    Jana


    OK, that's fine. I'm not against it in Czeck, as well, as in Russian. I'm just curious why such exception was made for Ukraine, as a country, in Russian! :)

    Insider
     

    Insider

    Senior Member
    Ukraine (Ukrainian)
    I've given you the explanation I once heard somewhere. In my opinion, it's the best possible. :)
    To say the truth, it just puzzles me that some people take this на Украине as a personal insult. It's just a fact of language, and nothing more. It seems that someone just tries to make it a political issue.
    Interestingly enough, no one of my Ukrainian friends seem to mind the use of на Украине. They themselves say so! :)

    Etcetera,

    And, as for me, the explanation that was given by you, doesn't sound as the best example. :) Well, I also surprised that you're trying to sat that some people from Ukraine are going to male some political issue on it. Because I cannot understand the fact, that someone from Ukrainian side is attempting to make some changes in your language! :)
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    Etcetera,

    And, as for me, the explanation that was given by you, doesn't sound as the best example. :) Well, I also surprised that you're trying to sat that some people from Ukraine are going to male some political issue on it. Because I cannot understand the fact, that someone from Ukrainian side is attempting to make some changes in your language! :)
    I'm not trying to state anything, mind you. :)
    By the way, I've just thought about a nice feature of the Finnish language which I like immensely. In Finnish, в России is Venäjällä, which is actually на Руси. :)
     

    papillon

    Senior Member
    Russian (Ukraine)
    I think Insider is right. I don't recall there ever being a discussion of this issue in/on :)D ) Ukraine, nor do I recall any manifestation with people on the streets of L'viv or Kiev carrying posters with на в. Nor do I know anyone who gets insulted when people say na Ukraine.

    I think the shift actually originates at the very top, probably both in Kiev and in Moscow, where an unwritten and (perhaps) unspoken convention has been slowly forged to bring Ukraine in line (linguistically speaking) with other countries by referring to it using v. It's not really a political issue, or at least it hasn't yet become one.This is my impression.
     

    Brian P

    Senior Member
    Jana and Marijka, what is the rule as to when you use "w" ("v") or "na", referring to countries, in your languages? Czechoslovakia split into two nations at the same time yet in Polish you use "w" for Czechach (which I presume is the Czech Republic) but "na" for Slovakia. Jestem bardzo w zakłopotanie!
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Brian, I can offer a rule of thumb at best:
    All states - v
    except for (some!) islands - v
    and other unexplicable exceptions - na
    It is really funny; we would say v Československu but v Česku (alert: many Czechs cannot stand this word and prefer v České republice instead) and na Slovensku, although one would expect that Slovensko governs the preposition used for the former federation.

    My country is composed of Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia:
    v Čechách
    na Moravě
    ve Slezsku
    Other examples of na:
    na Rusi (click here for the difference between Rusko and Rus)
    na Kypru
    na Kubě
    na Jamajce
    na Novém Zélandě
    na Filipínách
    na Seychellách
    But:
    v Japonsku
    v Grónsku
    Either way, the preposition "na" is not perceived as derogatory (as if the country for which is use it were of lesser importance). Slovaks say "na Slovensku" as well.

    I am afraid I cannot say more, it is just an anomaly. It would be logical to claim that the "na + name" exceptions chronologically precede the genesis of the respective independent states but I can find a plethora of counterexamples - here's a funny one:
    na Slovensku
    ve Slovinsku

    Jana

    P.S. I revied the UN member list and could not find another example of a non-insular "na" state.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I could say the same as Jana does.
    I guess in Polish we use na also for geographical areas of Poland:
    na Mazowszu, Podlasiu, Kujawach, Pomorzu, Podhalu, etc.

    However, I did note some differences, we say:
    na Śląsku
    w Nowej Zelandii

    I don't quite know what v Grónsku means,:eek: perhaps, na Grenlandii.

    Exceptions I can remember:
    w Wielkiej Brytanii
    W Irlandii
    w Islandii (here I've got the impression I heard na Islandii as well:confused: ).

    Tom
     

    Brian P

    Senior Member
    Thanks, Jana and Tomaszek. In English we use "on" optionally for small islands. You could say, for example, "I was on Maui" or "I was in Maui" but you would use "in" for Cyprus, Tasmania, New Zealand etc.

    B.
     

    Marijka

    Member
    Polish/Poland
    Ukrainian nationalists insist that in Russian we should use "в Украине" but when they write in Ukrainian they don't follow it much:

    Funny, because when I speak Polish I use "na Ukrainie", but when I speak Ukrainian I use "в Україні". Suppose I'm just undercover Ukrainian nationalist :cool:
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    русский (Russian)
    Funny, because when I speak Polish I use "na Ukrainie", but when I speak Ukrainian I use "в Україні". Suppose I'm just undercover Ukrainian nationalist :cool:
    They also insist on English "in Ukraine" (used to be "in the Ukraine").

    It's a complex of "a little brother" of Russia in Ukraine, when the passions quieten down, there'll be more common sense, I hope.
     

    Insider

    Senior Member
    Ukraine (Ukrainian)
    They also insist on English "in Ukraine" (used to be "in the Ukraine").

    It's a complex of "a little brother" of Russia in Ukraine, when the passions quieten down, there'll be more common sense, I hope.

    Anatoli,

    What are you trying to say while writing "a little brother" of Russia? :confused:

    By the way, I think it's even very normal to use "in Ukraine". Language changes all the time, what used to be - just used to be...

    And the last one, would you be so kind to explain this "they also insist on..." - who "they"?

    Insider
     

    beclija

    Senior Member
    Boarisch, Österreich (Austria)
    I didn't even know it ever was "the Ukraine" in English. It would be a rare exception, wouldn't it? In German, there generally are a number of countries that have articles (and it isn't derogatory), but not in English otherwhise: Schweiz, Slowakei, Türkei, Mongolei, etc... (all "die", i.e. feminine) and Iran, Irak, Sudan, Niger (all masculine, i.e. "der"). Other countries don't take articles, unless modified (for example "das heutige Deutschland"), in which case it's always "das" (neuter).

    And for Islands, we generally say "auf" ("auf Kreta" as opposed to English "in Crete"). Island states tend to cause some confusion as well...
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    русский (Russian)
    Anatoli,

    What are you trying to say while writing "a little brother" of Russia? :confused:

    By the way, I think it's even very normal to use "in Ukraine". Language changes all the time, what used to be - just used to be...

    And the last one, would you be so kind to explain this "they also insist on..." - who "they"?

    Insider

    Dear Insider,

    I don't want to hurt anyone's national pride feelings, I am half Ukrainian, by the way, so when I do comment, I also comment my own people. I was referring to Ukrainian nationalists, of course (re: "who they?"). I am not saying that Ukraine IS "a little brother" of Russia but talking about the complex, the reason why Ukrainian nationalists want to prove that they ARE NOT "a little brother" of Russia, as if anyobdy wants them to be. You will find heaps of debates about "in Ukraine/in the Ukraine" and "на Украине/в Украине", I don't want to start another one but I thought I'd mention it to foreign learners, so they know it's more political, than linguistical issue. It's a political issue because someone (don't know where it started) suggested that "на Украине" is not referred to a country but an area (it's wrong, of course).

    If you insist on discussing, please PM me, I am not sure others will be interested in the topic or maybe another thread?

    I didn't even know it ever was "the Ukraine" in English. It would be a rare exception, wouldn't it? In German, there generally are a number of countries that have articles (and it isn't derogatory), but not in English otherwhise: Schweiz, Slowakei, Türkei, Mongolei, etc... (all "die", i.e. feminine) and Iran, Irak, Sudan, Niger (all masculine, i.e. "der"). Other countries don't take articles, unless modified (for example "das heutige Deutschland"), in which case it's always "das" (neuter).

    And for Islands, we generally say "auf" ("auf Kreta" as opposed to English "in Crete"). Island states tend to cause some confusion as well...
    In English there are not so many exceptions, "the Netherlands" for one. Yes, it used to be "the Ukraine" now you can use Ukraine both with and without "the".
    In German, there generally are a number of countries that have articles (and it isn't derogatory)
    "The Ukraine" was and is NOT derogatory, btw. Haven't heard anything about changes in German, I think it's still "die Ukraine". Well, it's feminine and should follow the grammar rules.
     

    uKoda

    Member
    English, New Zealand
    I know from my time in Zaporizhzhia that while Ukrainian is the offical language the commonly used language was Russian and some locals were caught out with the meaning of some stuff hear or see writen on TV etc. They also complained of the problems communicating with Ukrainians in the east. There was also a fairly political aspect to some it.

    With the issue of на/в, is this the same issue as the English prefixing of Ukraine with 'the'? Some of the things I have read suggest that instead of saying "I was in the Ukraine" I sould say "I was in Ukraine". The second option sounds unnatural to me but the inference of what I was reading was the first option was somehow wrong or insulting but no reason why was offered.
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    русский (Russian)
    With the issue of на/в, is this the same issue as the English prefixing of Ukraine with 'the'? Some of the things I have read suggest that instead of saying "I was in the Ukraine" I sould say "I was in Ukraine". The second option sounds unnatural to me but the inference of what I was reading was the first option was somehow wrong or insulting but no reason why was offered.
    You're behind, man :)

    Google hits:

    "in Ukraine" - 6,830,000
    "in the Ukraine" - 1,300,000

    It's not insulting or derogatory from my point of view and many others' to say "in the Ukraine" but the option without the is becoming more for the reasons explained before.
     

    ballena

    Member
    Russian
    Some time ago I was very curious about the way Ukrainian language was developed. I read a lot about it, so now I am confident that this question is really a political issue. When Ukrainian was standartized in 1920s-1930s, its grammar and dictionaries had to be corrected several times until bigwigs in Moscow were satisfied with the result. Everything in Ukrainian lahguage was brought as close as possible to Russian. For example, most of the dictionary entries had Russian words, which were used in some Ukrainian dialects, as a legitimate alternative to Ukrainian word (борошно, мука...).
    At the same time huge changes were made in Russian written language. This funny exception from the general rule that made Ukraine sound like an island or territory within the country was made standard at that very politicized time. At the same time English speakers started to get official information about "the Ukraine" from Russia. :)

    BTW, Pushkin used "в Украине" in his works;)
     

    Etcetera

    Senior Member
    Russian, Russia (St Petersburg)
    There's a very beautiful Polish songs - I love it immensely. It's called Hej, Sokoły. And, interestingly, here you can see both "w Ukrainie" and "na Ukrainie"!
    Pięknych dziewcząt jest niemało,
    Lecz najwięcej w Ukrainie.
    Wina, wina, wina dajcie,
    A jak umrę pochowajcie
    Na zielonej Ukrainie,
    Przy kochanej mej dziewczynie.
    I guess that can have something to do with the context, but my knowledge of Polish doesn't allow me to judge. :)
     

    Marijka

    Member
    Polish/Poland
    There's a very beautiful Polish songs - I love it immensely. It's called Hej, Sokoły. And, interestingly, here you can see both "w Ukrainie" and "na Ukrainie"!


    I guess that can have something to do with the context, but my knowledge of Polish doesn't allow me to judge. :)

    I think it depends on which one (w or na) suits the melody better. :)
     
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