PIE *teu-(taSure, Tedesco must be a Germanic cognate in Italian; after all it refers to Germany, although I don’t understand the role of semivowel “w” here. What is PIE root for this cognate?
In Slovene we use "Nemec" for a person of German nationality. The word "nemec" means literally "a mute person" in Modern Slovene. (nemec -> (nem=mute) +ec = nemec).
"Barbar(ian)" means something like "babbler", "stutterer" - that's correct.The explanation that the Slavic word for "German" comes from a Slavic word meaning "mute" is unconvincing. First, it cannot surely be the case that the Slavs thought the German tribes could not speak at all. Secondly, if you are going to call a people after the way they speak then a word meaning "mute" hardly seems applicable. One would expect a word meaning something like "babbler" or "stutterer" to be used.
"Barbar(ian)" means something like "babbler", "stutterer" - that's correct.
However, in Slavic languages it is true that the word just means "mute" - German = Nemec (I also think, like Jana, that it is the same in all Slavic languages). This etymology is well-established and widely accepted by the scientific community - it is not a folk-etymology based on coincidental homonymy but an established historic etymology.
And how to explain that they call Germans "mute"? - Well, surely Slavs knew that that German babbling was a language, but to them it wasn't intelligible and thus falls basically in the same category as "barbarian - babbler". So I don't see a real problem here, to be honest.
Since the derivation of "Polski", a word used by Slavs to describe Slavs, is uncertain, it seems unwise to be too dogmatic about the derivation of a word used by Slavs to describe non-Slavs.
Polski on Bulgarian literaly means from a field/flatland. From pole - field. Having in mind Polish geography seems logical too.
We should not wonder. Also, we may wonder why "computer" has various notations in different languages but we should not.Why is German so deviant?
This etymology seems unprobable to me.My Russian teacher said that "nyemyetskiy" came from "nye moy" = "not mine". I am not sure that that is any more plausible.
Both volks, Germans and Slavs, have lived in neighbourhood long time in the basin of the middle Danube. In that situation, both ethnonyms, slovēne (Slavs) and nēmьцi (Germans), were developed at the same time and, since then, have always stayed in mutual opposition. The former means "people capable to speak" and the latter - "people incapable to speak".
Then how comes the Italian word Nemiti and the Czech word Nemetz are similar
in morphology. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume that the cognate was spread along eastern and southern Germanic borders? As one of posters in this thread mentioned,
the Italian “Nemiti” means enemy in Italian, which, I presume, was borrowed into English, and here it means “enemy.” I wonder if someone can successfully separate the Italian root from the Czech one. Also, is the Czech or the west Slavic “Nemetz” cognate known in Russian, not necessary to describe Germany?
Like Christo Tamarin I wouldn't consider this etymology useful; I'd say that this classifies as folk etymology.My Russian teacher said that "nyemyetskiy" came from "nye moy" = "not mine". I am not sure that that is any more plausible.
Could the Slavic etymology have the same root with the Italian word “nemici?”
It's basically what we said above - Nemec = mute, foreigner originally, but also silly/dumb people; in Middle Russian (that's what Cp. seems to stand for) it was also used to denote speaking not very clearly (like kids babbling), and so on: I think that fits perfectly really with everything written above.![]()
Yes, surely this has to be the correct etymology (unfortunately no entry in etimo.it so I can't check) - there's surely no relation to the Slavic word for Germans.I think that must come from the Latin inimicus = in+amicus = "not friend".
Concerning "Wlach" please see this thread.Interestingly the word Nemec seems to relate to Germans in particular. cf Polish Włoch (italy) and Bulgarian влашко (vlashko) (Rumanian) cognate with the English word Welsh?
It is not so "obvious" to me. The words diota (Old High German), þiod/þeod (Anglo-Saxon/Old English) and þioð (Old Norse) meaning people were still in current use in all Germanic languages during the entire first Millennium (cf. e.g. þeodcyninga=of people kings in the first sentence of Beowulf). The words Deutsch/Duits/Dutch may well have developed directly from its Germanic root without Latin help.The Italian word tedesco goes back to Late Latin teutiscu(m), ultimately from Gothic thiuda, “people”. Obviously, the German form deutsch also comes via Latin, and – together with tedesco – it means “popular; vernacular [language]”.
Hey, I don't speak German at all, but I was wondering if someone could explain to me why German, of all other languages, changes the most between languages.
For instance... English = German.... Spanish = Alemán.... Italian = Tedesco... German = Deutsche (sp?)...
Whereas for, let's say, Spanish.... English = Spanish.... Spanish = Español.... Italian = Spagnolo.... French = Espagnole.....
They are all very similar for other languages, just not German. Anybody know the origin or reason of this?
Why on earth would Deutsch be a loan from Late Latin when it is a lautgesätzlich a perfect genetic cognate to the other Germanic words with the same meaning?.....the fact that Latins called the Language spoken in Germany at their time as Theodisce, that means people's language (notice the similarity with Deutsch, that Germans inherited from this latin word).
Yes, the Latin word is a form deriving from an an older German, that's true, but the fact that tha Latins classified every region with its language led the to form of the word to survive...
There's no need to list all the region that took their name from the Latin one.That is a bold claim. The are only some modern country names which are derived from Roman names of the province of region:
France: No
Deutschland: I say no, you say yes
England: No
Britain: Yes
Wales: No
Italia: Yes
Österreich: No
Schweiz: No
Magyarország: No
España: Yes
România: No (Roman name was Dacia)
Begië/Belgique/Belgien: Yes
Holland: No
Nederland: No
Can you please substantiate that claim?the Romans classified every region with its language. They subdivided each region on the language spoken...
This claim has not been substantiated yet. The word Deutsch (or Duits on Dutch of Dutch in English, etc) has an uninterrupted attested history in Germanic languages itself. It is not at all obvious that Latin had anything whatsoever to do with this. If you say it does, I would like to hear your reasons.I was trying to say that this great influence helped the name of the German language, Teodische, to arrive until the present day.
Is there need to substantiate it?Hi,
Can you please substantiate that claim?
Groetjes,
Frank
If we (Italian) call the Germany language "Tedesco" and not "Germanese" it is obviously due to the fact this name has been diffused through Italy thanks to that literature I was talking about.This claim has not been substantiated yet. The word Deutsch (or Duits on Dutch of Dutch in English, etc) has an uninterrupted attested history in Germanic languages itself. It is not at all obvious that Latin had anything whatsoever to do with this. If you say it does, I would like to hear your reasons.
Yes, but the "Late Latins" ("Early Romance"?) speakers had taken it from an ancient Germanic language (Gothic? Langobardic?, Vandal? who knows)Regardless the fact that the name of the German language has always been attested through history, we call the German language as Tedesco not because we took it from the modern German "Deutsch" but because we inherited it from the Latins.
Ah! Now you are only talking about why the Italians call German tedesco and not why the Germans call it Deutsch. That is completely uncontentious.If we (Italian) call the Germany language "Tedesco" and not "Germanese" it is obviously due to the fact this name has been diffused through Italy thanks to that literature I was talking about.
Obviously, we call France Francia and not Britannia Minor because France is a much more older nation than Germany, and its own name supplanted the Latin one.
Regardless the fact that the name of the German language has always been attested through history, we call the German language as Tedesco not because we took it from the modern German "Deutsch" but because we inherited it from the Latins.
Yes, it is Late Latin and the origin is Gothic.Yes, but the "Late Latins" ("Early Romance"?) speakers had taken it from an ancient Germanic language (Gothic? Langobardic?, Vandal? who knows)
Yes, you're right on that sentence of mineAh! Now you are only talking about why the Italians call German tedesco and not why the Germans call it Deutsch. That is completely uncontentious.
But in your first post in this thread you wrote "notice the similarity with Deutsch, that Germans inherited from this latin word". This is something totally different!
Ok, then we are totally in agreement.Yes, you're right on that sentence of mine
Hey, I don't speak German at all, but I was wondering if someone could explain to me why German, of all other languages, changes the most between languages.
For instance... English = German.... Spanish = Alemán.... Italian = Tedesco... German = Deutsche (sp?)...
Whereas for, let's say, Spanish.... English = Spanish.... Spanish = Español.... Italian = Spagnolo.... French = Espagnole.....
They are all very similar for other languages, just not German. Anybody know the origin or reason of this?