Et voila-- une autre.swetty said:
I'm messing up all over the place today
Artrella said:Just a little correction for us English learners ... it is paid attention...
I hope you don't mind Sweettenham...
jejejeje....... You've found me out, Artrellita-- Spanish is really my first language. My English is getting pretty good, though 
Hi Oven,
So, what does GE stand for? Great English?!
I haven't heard of this either!?Hello Oven,Oven said:
Hello Oven,Oven said:
is the root of the matter:faith said:
They call this sound the "alveolar tap", since the tongue taps on the alveolar ridge (the front palate) making a sound similar to that of the English "d" and to our Spanish intervocalic r: AME "petal" would be pronounced like Spanish "peral", although its Spanish counterpart is stressed on the last syllable.
WE = a good proportion of the residents of Northern Ireland. In responding to a number of posts much earlier in the thread, before your postfoxfirebrand said:
I was making the point that it is not only RP-speakers who still pronounce their Ts.Indeed you did, and that was why it occurred to me to use that lead-in to the RP link - in other words, I wasn't disagreeing with you, merely providing additional information
Well, I'm sure that my t/d between vowels is an r sound (and even in words like curtain or murdering), and from my very little exposure to Spanish, I know that one of its r's is the same as the Greek r which I'm familiar with. At first, I thought it might be limited geographically, but Enlasarenas seems to be suggesting it's a feature of AE as a whole. As for why they have trouble, maybe because it's something they do subconsciously? Or maybe you just tend to read r as your r, whatever that r might be?Isotta said:
English native speakers have troubles with rolling Spanish r's, because it's a sound you lack in your system. These r's are not the ones between vowels, but in other contexts, such as 1) in initial position: rojo (here the pronunciation is twice harder since you might have to deal with a much harsher h sound than that of English: jremosfan said:
), 2) at the end of a syllable followed by a syllbale beginning in consonant: parte, although in this case it's optional whether you want to roll it or just tap it. When TV comentators broadcast a soccer match they tend to roll them so as to get you hooked on the game!!! Comienza la segunda parrrrrrrrrrrrte!!!! 
Except for Angela Lansbury. And Bostonians, from what I've heard. Maybe Angela's from Boston originally...foxfirebrand said:
I think some people in the US do say" bedder, budder". I do. This is one of many reaons I enjoy listening to books written in the UK read by UK readers. It's so different to hear "uttuh", "bettuh".GenJen54 said:Hi Oven,
Actually, thanks to panjandrum, a frequent forum visitor, I was directed to this website here, which further explains RP. I hadn't heard of it until I crossed it in this thread a few days ago. It came up in another thread today, so I went ahead and inquired about it.
So, what does GE stand for? Great English?!
I will agree with others however, that the "t" is weakened in AE. It's not a completely "hard" t, but it's not a complete "d" sound, either. We kind of let our tongue roll on the front of our soft palate without forcing it, like the word "pero."
If you all wish to discuss this even more in depth, I'm sure you would get some lively replies in the English Only forum!
Angela Lansbury, in my opinion, is a "mimic". She can vary her accent from role to role in a way that amazes me. In order to hear how she really speaks, you would have to hear her interviewed, and it is possible that he original accent has been modified over the years.foxfirebrand said:
You mean in the way, for example, the "t" is unaspirated in French or Spanish? To my ears really not, the usual American pronunciation - when they pronounce it that way, for I have definitely heard Americans pronounce it like a "t" like us Brits (perhaps with a bit less aspiration) - sounds like a full-on "d" to me... Perhaps in your American accent your "t" is more like a "t" than the average?Isotta said:
An unvoiced "d" is a "t"!Isotta said:
I think someone pointed out the pair metal/medal earlier... Would that work?timpeac said:An unvoiced "d" is a "t"!
Anyone think of a suitable minimal pair?
For me at least, the first two end in different vowels, but as far as the t goes, it's the same for me throughout, a voiced tap as you called it previously.Enlasarenas said:
Good idea -Isotta said:
Where in German would that be?! Can you give some examples, fox? Thank youfoxfirebrand said:
.
Nope, she's from London.garryknight said:
I've seen her a couple of months ago on Larry King Live, talking about her (at that time) new film "The Blackwater Lightship", where she played an Irish Grandma - they showed clips of the film where she has a very thick Irish accent (on purpose of course).gaer said:Angela Lansbury, in my opinion, is a "mimic". She can vary her accent from role to role in a way that amazes me. In order to hear how she really speaks, you would have to hear her interviewed, and it is possible that he original accent has been modified over the years.
Gaer
I particularly like this example, because my pronounciation of let depends entirely upon the letter or word that follows.Enlasarenas said:
[I'm going to use this keystroke (`) to designate a glottal stop]MrMagoo said:Where in German would that be?! Can you give some examples, fox? Thank you
Oh that is what you mean - I thought you were taking about letters that are weakened and obliterated and therefore lead to the use of a glottal stop... which is never the case in German (at least not that I know of).foxfirebrand said:
(but I don't think that the post was wasted *hehe*))
It certainly wasn't wasted-- it gave me a segue! Okay, lass uns duen-- I hate to admit my German's so rusty, but I had a choice between being too formal or looking up "gib uns" to make sure I shouldn't be saying "geb uns." Too lazy.MrMagoo said:I'm sorry for the double posting of Angela Lansbury's birthplace
(Btw: You'd not use the polite "Sie" form in a discussion forum; you can say "you" to me
would this be related to phonics and the pronounciation of vowels, i.e. "hat" vs "hate" ??SweetMommaSue said:Hello Oven,
Well, I would have put this question in the English only forum, but I'm glad to have seen it. I have never heard of the terms "RP" and "GE" before. I see that they reference British versus North American accents, but what do the initials stand for? And are the Canadian and American accents really grouped together?
As for "t weakening", does it mean how, in speech, the double t is pronounced as d? I saw this question, but not the answer. I do not believe that my English teachers ever explained "why" we pronounce certain t's that way; we just were told that correct pronunciation is one way for some words and another way for other words. It is a memory thing. However, now I must research this to see if I can find a rule. This is a great question!
Perhaps, if one of the mods were to move this thread to the English only area, some of our resident experts would contribute.
Thank you for the post!
Sweet Momma Sue
Kelly,Kelly B said:
gaer said:Kelly,
I think I say: Aluminum is a "medal". My eyes have been very tired lately, so I've been listening to a lot of books.
AE: liddle, come ON, directly, ad all (at all), etc.
BE: little, COM own, die RECT ly, a TOLE (at all), etc.
I'm listening to a book right now, very nicely read, but the poor reader (UK) has to do one character who is American. It's quite awful.
The difference between BE and AE pronunciation is so great, when you really start listening, I think it's a wonder we can understand each other aTOLE.
Gear
but - on the basis of standard versions, I'd say they're both understandable.
I find BE and AE equally clear or impossible to understand, according to diction and region. Scottish English, although technically BE (is it?), because it is part of the UK, is SO different. But I do enjoy listening to the Scots and the Irish, because the accents are so musical.MrMagoo said:Hmm... I have to admit that for me, British English is harder to understand than American English, esp. when I talk to someone Scottish
The Scots are no easier for the rest of the UK to understand either!! Although, to be fair, it is by no means the whole of Scotland which is hard to understand, just parts. In particular Glasgow I think.gaer said:I find BE and AE equally clear or impossible to understand, according to diction and region. Scottish English, although technically BE (is it?), because it is part of the UK, is SO different. But I do enjoy listening to the Scots and the Irish, because the accents are so musical.
Gaer
