with VAT of %20

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Esad Nr

Senior Member
Turkish
I wonder if i can use ''with'' in sentence below ;As the other firms , we sell with VAT of %20.
 
  • Chez

    Senior Member
    English English
    As I posted it, I thought 'I wonder why I added 'only'? I was assuming this was a great selling point – comparing his firm to other firms that also charge 20% VAT. But if that's the going rate, then the 'only' is irrelevant
     

    The Newt

    Senior Member
    English - US
    As I posted it, I thought 'I wonder why I added 'only'? I was assuming this was a great selling point – comparing his firm to other firms that also charge 20% VAT. But if that's the going rate, then the 'only' is irrelevant
    Thanks.
     

    Uncle Jack

    Senior Member
    British English
    Often the important thing is to say whether the 20% VAT is included in the prices shown, or is additional to it. It is customary in Europe for VAT to be included in retail prices but excluded where the customer is expected to be a business.
    Let me make new sentence to explain what i want to ask
    Can i sell my used car with VAT?
    VAT usually only applies to new items, unless it is something being imported into a VAT area (I have no idea what rules apply in this case).
     

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    Let me make new sentence to explain what i want to ask
    Can i sell my used car with VAT?
    If you're a private seller, then NO, not legally at least!
    If you're a business and if you're VAT-registered, you must collect it from the buyer and and pay all of it to the government at whatever rate is prescribed. :)
     

    DonnyB

    Sixties Mod
    English UK Southern Standard English
    Let me make new sentence to explain what i want to ask
    Can i sell my used car with VAT?
    Leaving all the legal complexities aside, and just concentrating on the language question, you can talk about displaying prices "with VAT included".

    Is that what you're trying to ask?
     

    Esad Nr

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Leaving all the legal complexities aside, and just concentrating on the language question, you can talk about displaying prices "with VAT included".

    Is that what you're trying to ask?
    Yes. I just want to ask use of “with” as in my question
     
    Last edited:

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    Leaving all the legal complexities aside, and just concentrating on the language question, you can talk about displaying prices "with VAT included".
    Unfortunately you cannot separate the language aspect from the tax aspect here.

    If you write "(with) VAT included", the buyer might ask for a tax invoice that explicitly shows the VAT amount and if that buyer is a business they will logically deduct that input tax from the VAT they collect. And if the tax office happens to check this invoice and they find out that you don't pay that VAT to them, you're in serious trouble!
    You have to follow the tax regulations from the country where you issue the invoice, and your description of the goods or services you sell have to reflect those regulations. Anything else is fraud -- it may work very well as long as you're not caught, but once you do get caught you had better have a sufficiently big nest egg somewhere - or a good escape plan. ;)
     

    Esad Nr

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Unfortunately you cannot separate the language aspect from the tax aspect here.

    If you write "(with) VAT included", the buyer might ask for a tax invoice that explicitly shows the VAT amount and if that buyer is a business they will logically deduct that input tax from the VAT they collect. And if the tax office happens to check this invoice and they find out that you don't pay that VAT to them, you're in serious trouble!
    You have to follow the tax regulations from the country where you issue the invoice, and your description of the goods or services you sell have to reflect those regulations. Anything else is fraud -- it may work very well as long as you're not caught, but once you do get caught you had better have a sufficiently big nest egg somewhere - or a good escape plan. ;)
    Okay. Let’s assume that I am a business and i collect VAT from buyer and pay it goverment. Can I say I will sell it with VAT.
     

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    Okay. Let’s assume that I am a business and i collect VAT from buyer and pay it goverment. Can I say I will sell it with VAT.
    In my experience, the common practice when quoting a selling price is that you include the phrase (incl. VAT) or (excl. VAT), e.g.:
    Used Ferrari for sale, best condition, EUR150,000.- (incl. VAT) negotiable

    Business buyers normally expect prices excluding VAT, private buyers expect to see the final price.
    If you're selling items on a web site, you usually put a note at the top or bottom of the page, e.g. all prices including VAT.

    If I read "Just like other firms, we only charge 20% VAT" in your offer, I'd already be suspicious because firms cannot set their own VAT rates as they wish and therefore it doesn't make sense to mention it.
     

    Uncle Jack

    Senior Member
    British English
    Okay. Let’s assume that I am a business and i collect VAT from buyer and pay it goverment. Can I say I will sell it with VAT.
    Choose a phrase that makes it clear whether VAT is included or excluded. "With VAT" does not make it entirely clear which is the case.
     

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    If you wrote "I will sell it for $10000 with VAT", I'd assume that 10,000 is the final price (even though 'with VAT' is actually ambiguous), but if you write "I will sell it for $10000 plus VAT", I'll assume I have to pay VAT ontop of the quoted price.
     

    Esad Nr

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    If you wrote "I will sell it for $10000 with VAT", I'd assume that 10,000 is the final price (even though 'with VAT' is actually ambiguous), but if you write "I will sell it for $10000 plus VAT", I'll assume I have to pay VAT ontop of the quoted price.
    Thank you so much.
     

    natkretep

    Moderato con anima (English Only)
    English (Singapore/UK), basic Chinese
    Yes, write $10,000 + VAT. That is what I see on price lists or tags. If you are writing it as a sentence, something like this might work 'The price is $10,000, excluding VAT'.

    (Do use the comma separator in 10,000: this is very helpful for English speakers.)
     
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