women are disgraced

s21d

Senior Member
hindi
Women are being disgraced even now.

Is the word "disgraced" is correct to mean that the modesty of women are being violated?
 
  • Parla

    Member Emeritus
    English - US
    I'd also like to know where you saw this, because I don't understand what it means. It would be helpful, perhaps, if you could quote what came before it.
     

    s21d

    Senior Member
    hindi
    it was just out of memory. i was writing an article, so it came into my mind and i wanted to cross- check if it is at all possible.
     

    Chimon

    Senior Member
    English - United States
    It makes sense grammatically, although the use of passive voice makes it a bit too general for my taste. I think it would strike a native speaker strangely because concepts of being 'dishonored' or 'disgraced' or 'shamed' are less commonly used in Western culture. Depending on context, you might use 'denigrated' or 'disrespected,' but those mean slightly different things, and usually refer to offensive treatment, usually verbally. However, I know for a lot of my friends from more Eastern cultures, the concepts of honor and shame and disgrace are much more prominent, and if you are referring to those cultural values that are more common in the East, 'disgrace,' or 'dishonor,' or 'shame,' are the correct verbs to use. However, expect some native speakers to be confused, because we don't really have those cultural concepts in many Western cultures.
     

    Hermione Golightly

    Senior Member
    British English
    Without some very specific context I can't say if your sentence is good or not. Who is 'violating women's modesty'? What women? You must surely have some situation in mind.

    Hermione
     

    Biffo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Women are being disgraced even now.
    Is the word "disgraced" is correct to mean that the modesty of women are being violated?
    disgrace /dɪsˈɡreɪs/ vb (transitive)
    • to bring shame upon; be a discredit to
    • to treat or cause to be treated with disfavour

    Given the above definitions I think we can say that disgrace for women who have been violated depends on the culture they live in and what they and others believe.

    In some cultures the shame would fall on the family of the perpetrator. In others it would fall upon the family of the victim.

    I therefore think that a different word is needed because 'disgrace' and 'violation' are not synonyms.
     

    s21d

    Senior Member
    hindi
    Actually I am from India and writting an article on growing insecurity for women in our country. Chimon got my point. There have been cases of sexual harassment, rape in recent past so it is kind of disgracing women. I want to use this term for it.

    Context- We have come a long way since the ages of mythology, However things have not changed for women. They are still being disgraced in some community.
     

    Biffo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Actually I am from India and writting an article on growing insecurity for women in our country. Chimon got my point. There have been cases of sexual harassment, rape in recent past so it is kind of disgracing women. I want to use this term for it.

    Context- We have come a long way since the ages of mythology, However things have not changed for women. They are still being disgraced in some community.
    Maybe I haven't understood your question then. I do understand that some dreadful things are happening. I am attempting to leave aside judgement of the situation and instead consider your question as purely one of vocabulary.

    I wonder if either of the following words is relevant?

    Women are being humiliated/demeaned even now.
     

    Parla

    Member Emeritus
    English - US
    I think you need stronger words. You can demean or humiliate someone by called them nasty names. That's markedly different from, and a good deal milder than, rape and murder.
     

    Chimon

    Senior Member
    English - United States
    Maybe I haven't understood your question then. I do understand that some dreadful things are happening. I am attempting to leave aside judgement of the situation and instead consider your question as purely one of vocabulary.

    I wonder if either of the following words is relevant?

    Women are being humiliated/demeaned even now.
    As I understand it, in many Eastern cultures, there is a sense of a person's 'honor' as an entity, that is, how a person is perceived, how is treated, a person's intrinsic value is connected to their relationship with and perception by the community, and the defamation of this entity is extremely significant, perhaps has significant as being found guilty of a felony in a court of law would be to us Westerners. I don't really understand that, but it's an analogy several of my friends from the East have made: that the significance we Westerners ascribe to guilt/innocent, they ascribe to this communal concept of shame/honor. For this entity, English just not have a very good translation, but shame and honor are often used, along with synonyms such as 'disgrace.'

    If I were to write the article, and I were to talk about women being raped and abused, I would use the word 'violated.' But that's a more Western perspective, it implies that an individuals has certain boundaries and rights, and that another individual has, reprehensibly, crossed them. But I don't think that's really what the OP wants to say. He wants to say something different than a Westerner would think is important about rape. He wants to talk about how communities allowing rape is the willful, communal degradation of a woman's entity of 'honor.' At least, that's the best I can figure about what he means. And for that purpose, I think, disgrace is about as good of a translation as English is able to offer.

    But you should be aware that English's ability to express the idea of honor or shame in general is rather poor, primarily because those ideas are rarer in the West. We prefer more intrinsic, individual qualities like "guilt" or "righteousness" rather than those connected to the community, which some of us haven't even heard of, because some Westerners really don't have communities. I don't know who *any* of the people who live on my block are, I honestly couldn't tell you a single one of their names, and I certainly don't care whether they regard me with honor. So anyway, be aware that what you are saying may be very difficult to express to an English speaker outside your culture.
     

    Truffula

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    To express the thought as I understand it, I would say "Women are not safe even now (in some communities)"

    However, as many previous answers state much better than I could, the cultural context is the most important part of the phrasing in this situation. Many people in India are fluent English speakers, and if that is your audience, that should be who answers, to get the best and clearest phrasing.
     

    Biffo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Women are being disgraced even now.

    Is the word "disgraced" is correct to mean that the modesty of women are being violated?
    Looking at the question again, I think the problem lies in how we understand the context. In my part of the world for instance, the phrase "having one's modesty violated" is perhaps not strong enough to describe rape. It might simply refer to sexual harassment such as being given a wolf-whistle.

    Maybe we need to avoid euphemisms altogether. Do you mean.

    (a) Women are being treated with contempt even now (and this is demonstrated by being subjected to sexual assault).
    (b) Women are being sexually assaulted even now.
    (c) Female victims of sexual harassment and their families are experiencing feelings of shame as a result of the victims' experiences.
    (d) ...and so on.

    If you could formulate the original question in straightforward terms such as the ones I have given, we can search for a single verb that describes the concept.

    ____________________________________________________________________
    Note
    The word 'demean'covers the general problem of disrespect but does not imply the specifics. For example one could demean someone by using non gender-based insults.
     
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