Word coincidence

Arme

Member
Armenian
Hello :) Is it the definite article or the accusative singular mark?
Hi Clamor, yes, it IS an accusative mark, and one of its meanings as an accusative mark is "definiteness", which today is expressed by modern Armenian definite article «ը» /"the" in English/.
For instance: օրհնեցԷք զՏԷր-օրհնեցեք Տիրոջը
օրհնեցԷք զանուն Տեառն-օրհնեցեք Տիրոջ անունը /Bless the name of the Lord/

The French linguist Antoine Meillet and others too talked about its "function expressing definiteness" which can be found in the earliest Armenian texts: they believe that it is an early function of «զ» before it became grammaticized as just an accusative mark.
 
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  • ancalimon

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    There are literally tens of thousands of words between English and Turkish that look like anagrams. And it looks like (I am not saying that there is since I haven't tried finding any correlations) there is some kind of Caesar Cipher algorithm revolving around shifting letters by +-1 or 2 or 3 or changing letters between for example
    y<>a ı q<>k, p k<>q c g<>c k o<>2*ü
    w<>ğ,u. B <> 2*p, q etc.

    Here is an example

    Turkish
    Kaydır
    English
    Drag

    Turkish
    Sürükle
    English
    Scroll

    Turkish
    Sıkı ez
    English
    Squeeze

    Turkish
    Sorgu from Turkic Soqra meaning to try the reach true knowledge (without force).
    English
    Query

    Turkish
    Uygulat
    English
    Execute

    Turkish
    Bağla (Baqla)
    English
    Apply

    The list can can go on and on

    I guess if the story about tower of babel is actually real in a sense and not a telltale, this could be it
     
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    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    (1)
    Suffix ‘y’, pronounced like a short ‘i’, to indicate relatedness.
    Examples:
    English (adj.): oily, fishy, smelly, mossy, ratty, bitchy, cocky.
    Persian (adj.): gelli (muddy), iraani (of Iran), honari (artistic), aabaki (watery, dilute), sheeri (milky), tanni (in offspring, of same parentage), shahri (urban).

    (2)
    English: fuzz
    Persian: vezz

    (3)
    English: dark
    Persian: taareek

    (4)
    English: puff
    Persian: poff
     

    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    I know it's not an exact coincidence, and the pronunciation of the letters <ai> is different, too, but still, I think it's remarkable that one of the meanings of the Latvian word 'gaita' is 'gait' in English (way of walking).
    The two words don't seem to be related (I wasn't sure at first because there are a number of Low German loanwords in Latvian).
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Thought of a couple more:

    1.
    Finnish kiert- (infinitive kiertää) ”to turn, twist” (transitive), also ”to go around, avoid (something)”
    – from the root kier-, < *keer- which shows up in various other terms referring to a circular/curved motion or shape (kieriä ”to roll”, etc.).

    English skirt (verb) ”to avoid, evade” (among other meanings)
    – from the noun skirt, perhaps via the meaning ”to go around the edge/margin” (in addition to the article of clothing, skirt can also refer to other items that gird/surround something, such as protective skirts around the legs of a table)
    skirt is cognate with the noun shirt, the adjective short, etc.

    The s- of skirt doesn't count against this resemblance, because the loss of the first consonant in a word-initial CC cluster is extremely regular in Finnic. (Cf. Finnish kaappi ”cupboard, cabinet”, related to Norwegian skap ”cabinet”.)

    ___________________________________
    2.
    Latin pons, ponte- ”bridge” is cognate with various other terms meaning ”way, road” (e.g. Slovene pot “path, journey”).

    Welsh hynt ”path, course” closely resembles ponte- (the sound change p > h is somewhat common, and is thought to have occurred in proto-Celtic).

    However, hynt (and its Celtic cognates) is instead thought to be cognate with English send, German senden, Old English sīþ "journey", etc. (The *h from earlier *p has mostly or entirely vanished in Welsh, leaving *s- as the main source of h-.)

    ___________________________________
    3.
    This example doesn't involve a semantic match, but I think it's too interesting to leave out:

    Lithuanian mėlynas "blue", thought to be from a word meaning "black" or "dark" (cf. Latvian melns "black", Greek mélan- "black", etc.)

    Welsh melyn "yellow", thought to be derived from the term for "honey" (cf. Latin mel "honey", etc.)

    Though they don't match semantically, these are both terms for a basic color that have been innovated relatively recently (i.e., they don't reflect the ancestral terms for these colors), and despite sounding very alike, they come from different respective sources.
     
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    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    This is a coincidence of a different type, but I hope it can stay here.
    The Turkish word for 'crowd' or 'crowded' is kalabalık, which looks like a word entry in a Finnish-Turkish dictionary:

    The Finnish word for 'fish' is 'kala' , and 'balık' also means 'fish' in Turkish. :)
     

    Rallino

    Moderatoúrkos
    Turkish
    This is a coincidence of a different type, but I hope it can stay here.
    The Turkish word for 'crowd' or 'crowded' is kalabalık, which looks like a word entry in a Finnish-Turkish dictionary:

    The Finnish word for 'fish' is 'kala' , and 'balık' also means 'fish' in Turkish.:)

    Yes, it's also a common name for fish restaurants in Turkey. The word both has the word "balık" (fish) in it, and it means "crowded", suggesting perhaps that it's a busy restaurant. :)

    1615543486613.png
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    This is not a good coincidence, in my opinion, but it is an instructive example:

    Spanish sudor “sweat”, from the same root as Eng. sweat, etc.
    Greek húdōr “water”, cognate with Eng. water, German Wasser, etc.

    Phonetically, the two words match almost exactly (the correspondence of Greek h- to Latin/Romance s- is quite normal).

    However, semantically, it's not a match at all: water is not sweat, and sweat is not water.

    Even if we regard sweat as a type of water (some languages' terms for water might exclude it), the word sweat still occupies a vastly smaller conceptual territory – and therefore a vastly different conceptual territory – than that of water.

    Thus, this pair is a good example of how semantic precision is important in comparison, and how one can't rely solely on phonological matches (and an unsystematic hunch that two or more words “seem similar” semantically) to establish relationships between words.
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    Catalan: Una gran noia = A great girl
    Italian: Una gran noia = A great boredom
     

    Arme

    Member
    Armenian
    Every Armenian knows that the word "stone" in Armenian is "քար[kar]", but in the dialects of Syunik and Artsakh regions, people also use the word.... "ռոք [ROCK]" which denotes a big stone and is recorded in ancient manuscripts by that meaning.
     
    Italian = lato (side) Polish = lato (summer)
    Italian = panna (cream) Polish = panna (unmarried woman)
    Italian = miele (honey) Polish = miele (I mill)
    Italian = dai (u give) Polish = daj (give)
    Italian = tempo (time) Polish = tempo (rate, pace)
    Italian = pasta (dough) Polish = pasta (paste, polish)
    Italian = autostrada(highway) Polish = autostrada (highway)
    Italian = droga (drug) Polish = droga (way)
    Italian = divano (couch) Polish = dywan (carpet)
    Italian = pomodoro (tomato) Polish = pomidor (tomato)
    Italian = ala (wing) Polish = Ala (girl's name)
    Italian = soffitto (ceiling) Polish = sufit (ceiling)
     
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    clamor

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Italian = lato (side) Polish = lato (summer)
    Italian = panna (cream) Polish = panna (unmarried woman)
    Italian = miele (honey) Polish = miele (I mill)
    Italian = dai (u give) Polish = daj (give)
    Italian = tempo (time) Polish = tempo (rate, pace)
    Italian = pasta (dough) Polish = pasta (paste, polish)
    Italian = autostrada(highway) Polish = autostrada (highway)
    Italian = droga (drug) Polish = droga (way)
    Italian = divano (couch) Polish = dywan (carpet)
    Italian = pomodoro (tomato) Polish = pomidor (tomato)
    Italian = ala (wing) Polish = Ala (girl's name)
    Italian = soffitto (ceiling) Polish = sufit (ceiling)
    If I'm not mistaken, some are not coincidences?
     

    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    You're right they could be a false friends ?
    This thread is about word coincidences, when two words in two languages look the same, mean the same, but they are not etymologically related. False friends look the same or similar, but the meanings are different.
    Now your list is full of words that don't belong to either category: Polish tempo, pomidor or sufit are loanwords from Italian and they have the same meaning as their Italian counterparts.
     
    This thread is about word coincidences, when two words in two languages look the same, mean the same, but they are not etymologically related. False friends look the same or similar, but the meanings are different.
    Now your list is full of words that don't belong to either category: Polish tempo, pomidor or sufit are loanwords from Italian and they have the same meaning as their Italian counterparts.
    Sorry but I can't modify it anymore .. , I hope it won't be a (big) problem..!?
     

    Vojvoda

    Banned
    Serbian
    German: geist ("ghost") , Serbian: gasiti ("to extinguish") , Sanskrit जसते (jásate, “to be extinguished”), जासयति (jāsáyati, “to extinguish, to exhaust”)
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Two more:


    1.

    I don't think this example has been presented yet, but apologies if it has:

    English agentive suffix -er (reader, writer, buyer, etc.), and its Germanic cognates (Icelandic -ari, Scandinavian -are, etc.)
    < Latin -arius, also the source of e.g. Spanish -ero (vaquero ”cowboy”, etc.)

    Welsh -wr (pronounced [ur]), which commonly functions as an agentive suffix (cf. nofiwr "swimmer" < nofi- "to swim" + -wr)
    < gwr (pronounced [gur]) "man", "male" (cognate with e.g. Latin vir "man"); historically, the suffix -wr was only used to designate males, but this rule has eroded in recent times, so that e.g. nofiwr can refer to a male or female swimmer.

    This is probably not a pure coincidence: the Welsh use of -wr as a general-purpose agentive suffix has likely been influenced (to some degree) by the similar-sounding English -er.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    2.

    English cut, probably from the same Germanic source as e.g. Old Swedish kotta "to cut"

    cutler "knife maker/repairer"
    < French coutelier < Latin cultellus, culter "knife"

    cutlet "slice of meat for broiling/frying"
    < French côtelette, earlier costelette < coste "rib"


    (A connection between cutlet and cut is also deceptively suggested by certain other languages' terms: German Schnitzel "cutlet" < schnitzen "to carve", Finnish leike "cutting, cutlet" < leikata "to cut".)
     
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