咁都比你諗到...
Anyway,
Standard Chinese: 是 (Mandarin - shi, Cantonese/Hakka/Teochew - si)
Spanish: Sí
Portuguese: Sim
All meaning yes.
Word coincidence
- Thread starter Moro12
- Start date
Anyway,
Standard Chinese: 是 (Mandarin - shi, Cantonese/Hakka/Teochew - si)
Spanish: Sí
Portuguese: Sim
All meaning yes.
Hello ancalimon,
beter like many other words in Turkish is taken from Persian, that is an IE word.
bad=>bad
badtar=> worse
badtarin=> the worst
I think there is a tendency to change most of 'a' to 'e' in Turkey Turkish, so ben is also an Persian word in origin
man=> I (in Azari Turkish I is man also)
French 'Si' too, but only for negative questions (oui for affirmative questions).
I've checked the WR dictionary for Italian and got sì.
For some reason, according to the WR dictionary, it's not 'si' in Rumanian though!
Then I checked an online Catalan dictionary. Sí.
One more thing: don't forget that we say 係 in Cantonese, which is pronounced 'xi' in PTH. For those who don't read pinyin, that's pronounced like 'see' in English and, therefore, 'si' in French.
1. I knew that in French, Catalan and Italian si is also used, but I didn't add them because they are all Romance languages and derived from the same root.
2. According to Wiktonary, yes in Romanian is da, and is most likely to do with either Romanian's early deviation from Proto-Romance (than the more commonly known ones like Spanish and Italian) or the unique position of Romania and its being in the vicinity of Slavic countries, ultimately borrowing from them, or both.
3. Of course. How could I? Although to be precise, I would say that xi is more like a mixture between see and she, but still similar to si in the various Romance languages.
2. According to Wiktonary, yes in Romanian is da, and is most likely to do with either Romanian's early deviation from Proto-Romance (than the more commonly known ones like Spanish and Italian) or the unique position of Romania and its being in the vicinity of Slavic countries, ultimately borrowing from them, or both.
3. Of course. How could I? Although to be precise, I would say that xi is more like a mixture between see and she, but still similar to si in the various Romance languages.
Hm, that's true. I repeated see, xi and she a few times, and it seems that the position where the tongue touches the roof of the mouth is the closest to the teeth in see and farthest to the teeth in she. That's unlike the Cantonese 's', which is about the same position as the English 'see'. I think this is similar to the PTH 'h' v. the Cantonese 'h'.
Indeed. See is the most front, then xi, then she. But enough with our little chat, or else we will deviate from the topic too much. To compensate, here are other coincidences:
Fire:
Cantonese: 火 (fo)
Catalan/Romanian: foc
Fire:
Cantonese: 火 (fo)
Catalan/Romanian: foc
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For your information, there's already a whole thread about dad/mum. It appears that this is present in most languages. http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=113508&highlight=mama+papa
Hello!
Well, I don't know if they are cognates... This page ( http://vasmer.narod.ru/p242.htm ) hints that the Russian word "каждый" originally consisted of two parts and meant something like "wherever [present]", referring to Max Vasmer's etymological dictionary. So probably not.
Best!
Another funny one: Spanish "cada" <==> Russian "каждая". Of course, the Russian word has an extra consonant [ж], and the endings of the words are somewhat different in pronounciation, but Russian people, especially children, might (and sometimes do) very erroneously pronounce (especially in hurry) the word "каждая" very close to "када" ("cada" in an approximate Spanish-like writing, exactly with the voiced [d] sound), so guess how the Spanish word "looks for my ear"!
Well, I don't know if they are cognates... This page ( http://vasmer.narod.ru/p242.htm ) hints that the Russian word "каждый" originally consisted of two parts and meant something like "wherever [present]", referring to Max Vasmer's etymological dictionary. So probably not.
Best!
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English "She" and Akkadian /ʃi/ have the same meaning.
Irish sí "she" is pronounced [ʃi] like the English word, but at least the initial s- probably has the same etymological origin as English sh-. I'm not sure whether the vowels in these two words have a common origin.
Here are two more coincidences.
In Greek mythology, there is a name; Gordian. Also another one from Greek history; Dracon.
Gordian supposedly made a Gordian Knot (an unsolvable knot) and Alexander The Great cut it with his sword.
In Turkish, Kördüğüm means "an unsolvable knot" Kör: blind düğ: to knot, to tangle düğüm: knot which is hard to solve
Draco is the first legislator in Greece and he made very harsh laws.
In Turkish töreko means "set laws". töre: laws that are among the most important ones. ko: to set, to put
In Greek mythology, there is a name; Gordian. Also another one from Greek history; Dracon.
Gordian supposedly made a Gordian Knot (an unsolvable knot) and Alexander The Great cut it with his sword.
In Turkish, Kördüğüm means "an unsolvable knot" Kör: blind düğ: to knot, to tangle düğüm: knot which is hard to solve
Draco is the first legislator in Greece and he made very harsh laws.
In Turkish töreko means "set laws". töre: laws that are among the most important ones. ko: to set, to put
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I don’t know if the German Du is related to the Spanish Tú. The pronunciation from our perspective is very similar.
They are related on the Indoeuropean basis.
English elbow ~ Turkish dirsek
While these word are in no way similar, in Turkish "Elbağ" means "connection hand" (connection to hand).
---
Here's another really interesting one:
In Turkish, we call Europe as Avrupa.
It's assumed that Avars take their name from Oghuz Turks.
The Oghuz Turks were the central Turks while the Ogur Turks lived all around the Oghuz Turks. They spread so much that they forgot they were Turks.
The Avars were once Ogurs and they were once Oghuz.
Avar means wanderer, "someone who wonders far away to unexplored lands" in Turkish.
Thus Avrupa<Avaroba<Oguroba<Oghuzoba
Oghuz Oba: The encampment of wondering Oghuz. (oba: wondering nomads, encampment of wondering nomads)
--
There is an even more interesting coincidence regarding this subject. The Chinese called Europe as Ōuzhōu 歐洲.
"Ouz Öyü" means "land belonging to Oghuz".
So maybe the Oghuz were in Europe even before the Ogurs.
While these word are in no way similar, in Turkish "Elbağ" means "connection hand" (connection to hand).
---
Here's another really interesting one:
In Turkish, we call Europe as Avrupa.
It's assumed that Avars take their name from Oghuz Turks.
The Oghuz Turks were the central Turks while the Ogur Turks lived all around the Oghuz Turks. They spread so much that they forgot they were Turks.
The Avars were once Ogurs and they were once Oghuz.
Avar means wanderer, "someone who wonders far away to unexplored lands" in Turkish.
Thus Avrupa<Avaroba<Oguroba<Oghuzoba
Oghuz Oba: The encampment of wondering Oghuz. (oba: wondering nomads, encampment of wondering nomads)
--
There is an even more interesting coincidence regarding this subject. The Chinese called Europe as Ōuzhōu 歐洲.
"Ouz Öyü" means "land belonging to Oghuz".
So maybe the Oghuz were in Europe even before the Ogurs.
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Probably not. I don't know if you know, but 洲 refers to a piece of land surrounded by water (in this case a continent) and not land in general. Also, take a look at this:
《明史‧外國(七)‧意大里亞》 said:
Therefore, 'Ōuzhōu' is probably an abbreviation of this 'Ōuluóbāzhōu'.
Chinese/English:
鯊魚 (shāyú) - shark
In Latin "ET" is "AT" in Tagalog. The "Alati" of Greek is "Salt" in English while in Tagalog it is "ASIN" but the saltiness is "ALAT". Greek light is "FOS" but in Tagalog it become "APOY"/ The "Katapatisis" of Greek has same sound and meaning in Tagalog "Katapat"(good challenger).the LILAC of English is the same color in Tagalog called "LILA"(violet).The English "altitude" can be "Taas" in Tagalog. The word "Valley" is "LIBIS" in Tagalog. The word "Wave" is "Alon" in Tagalog and the cause of waves is the magnetic field or gravitional pull of the Moon which is "LUNA" in Spanish. Star is Estrella in Spanish/Estella in Greek and "Tala" in Tagalog.
Sorry for the following little off-topic'ish reply:
Dear darush,
please allow me to correct as far as I believe to know:
"من" ("I") in Persian is actually a borrowing from a Turkic language.
Turkish "ben" and its related words in other Turkic languages (män, mən, bən, beng, ...) derive from Proto-Turkic *meŋ
This is in accordance with every suffix of the 1st person starting with -m(-). There is also an Old Turkic Orkhon-inscription of the 8th century, which starts with "Bilge Tonyuquq ben..."
Moving on, the Persian language is an Indo-Aryan language. The word "I" probably was in PIE *éǵh₂ (Latin → ego; German → ich; Anglo-Saxon → *ih/*ic; ...).
The palatovelar ǵ in the satem languages (Persian, Kurdish, Avestian,...) changed into an alveolar fricative (ǵ → z).
We can see such a word in the Kurdish language:
"ez" means "I"
I assume, that Persian **az interfered with از (az), meaning"from". So they borrowed, due to the nearness, the Azəri word for "I", that is "mən".
Dear darush,
please allow me to correct as far as I believe to know:
"من" ("I") in Persian is actually a borrowing from a Turkic language.
Turkish "ben" and its related words in other Turkic languages (män, mən, bən, beng, ...) derive from Proto-Turkic *meŋ
This is in accordance with every suffix of the 1st person starting with -m(-). There is also an Old Turkic Orkhon-inscription of the 8th century, which starts with "Bilge Tonyuquq ben..."
Moving on, the Persian language is an Indo-Aryan language. The word "I" probably was in PIE *éǵh₂ (Latin → ego; German → ich; Anglo-Saxon → *ih/*ic; ...).
The palatovelar ǵ in the satem languages (Persian, Kurdish, Avestian,...) changed into an alveolar fricative (ǵ → z).
We can see such a word in the Kurdish language:
"ez" means "I"
I assume, that Persian **az interfered with از (az), meaning"from". So they borrowed, due to the nearness, the Azəri word for "I", that is "mən".
Mez and chabi are Indian borrowings from Portuguese, who had factories at Goa, Daman and Diu.
Accidental resemblances are amusing, but I find much more interesting the sort of thing where people can say things in one language and be properly understood by speakers of another language, even when the two have been separated for a long time. I give two examples:
1. A Scottish girl, asking me for some rope, said "See us a bitty tow". An Afrikaner, hearing her, remarked that in Afrikaans that would be "gee ons 'n bietjie tou".
2. In Gujarati there is a saying "jyaN madh, tyaN maakhi" - where there is honey, there is a fly. It sounds very similar in Russian.
Accidental resemblances are amusing, but I find much more interesting the sort of thing where people can say things in one language and be properly understood by speakers of another language, even when the two have been separated for a long time. I give two examples:
1. A Scottish girl, asking me for some rope, said "See us a bitty tow". An Afrikaner, hearing her, remarked that in Afrikaans that would be "gee ons 'n bietjie tou".
2. In Gujarati there is a saying "jyaN madh, tyaN maakhi" - where there is honey, there is a fly. It sounds very similar in Russian.
What do they mean?
yes Saavi is a loan word,
similarly there is Veedu(House) which i think had come from Arabic(Bayt)
The original Tamil word is Kudi, Kudil looks related Hut(English) and there is also Manai(residing place/house) looks related to Manzel (Arabic) ?
The Bisaya Language has word "Yabe" for key.Ah, yes, like mesa and chave! I guessed the first one, but was scratching my head about the latter. Thanks for the reply.
The word "house" came from Aramaic letter "B" read as "Beth'.The word "Kudi" of Tamil is related to Tagalog word "Kuta" (Fortress) and "Manai" has counterpart in Tagalog word for "bahay" (house).
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In Tamil fortress is kOttai sounds like Tagalog word "Kuta" (Fortress),
but Kudi(Family), Kudisai,Kudil(Hut), Kudai(shade/umbrella), Kuli(hole) etc.. refers to the places to Get Inside.
man is from the Old Persian genitive singular mana. Middle Persian still distinguishes nominative an “I” and oblique man “me”. In New Persian the old oblique has been generalised.
In Tamil fortress is kOttai sounds like Tagalog word "Kuta" (Fortress),
They are certainly of loanword relation, which do not fit to the discussion of this thread, cf. Malay kota "fotress/town", and Sanskrit kuța "town/wall/fortress" according to this site.
@fdb
So do you propose an unrelated development of Farsi:man <> ben:Turkish?
So do you propose an unrelated development of Farsi:man <> ben:Turkish?
exactly. they are not even all that similar.
The personal pronouns show some similaraties even in languages that belong to different families:
minä "I" in Finnish; man, mine, mene ... in the IE languages (even if not in nominative)
te "you" in Hungarian; tu, du, thou, ty, ti ... in the IE languages
mi "we" in Hungarian; my, mi ... in Slavic languages
P.S. "I" in Hungarian is én, a bit similar to the Middle Persian an (if I've understood well the previous discussion)
minä "I" in Finnish; man, mine, mene ... in the IE languages (even if not in nominative)
te "you" in Hungarian; tu, du, thou, ty, ti ... in the IE languages
mi "we" in Hungarian; my, mi ... in Slavic languages
P.S. "I" in Hungarian is én, a bit similar to the Middle Persian an (if I've understood well the previous discussion)
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This is interesting.
At around 4 or 5 months, many babies will produce a gurgle that sounds exactly like this PIE word to me - not that I can claim to have heard the original. It could well be that it is from this source that we get the word itself. There are several other words that seem to have their origins in babbling, and I am sure there are more than a few neurolinguists working on the question.
At around 4 or 5 months, many babies will produce a gurgle that sounds exactly like this PIE word to me - not that I can claim to have heard the original. It could well be that it is from this source that we get the word itself. There are several other words that seem to have their origins in babbling, and I am sure there are more than a few neurolinguists working on the question.
Yes, this is the word in most Iranian languages: Avestan azəm, Parthian az etc.
In most languages the pronouns are very short words. But this means that from a purely mathematical point of view the probability of random coincidence between two unrelated languages is fairly high.
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I really find it fascinating, therefore I will be asking (I love etymology
):Is the origin of (Old) Persian an known? How come, most of the other Aryan languages have a cognate of *éǵh₂- and Farsi did and does not (anymore?)?
Oh, I don't know, have I provided this yet? I guess not:
Turkish "dik kafalı" (stubborn, lit.: erect headed) vs. German "Dickkopf" (a stubborn one, lit.: thick-head)
Although not in the meaning dik <> dick, adjected with the word "head", both refer to stubbornness.
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Another probable coincidence in Turkish.
Gather : Getir (To take something or someone to a certain place, to bring)
Here is a funny one:
Alligator : eli götür (chops off hand, gulps down hand, snaps the hand off)
Dik also means the following in Turkish:
Erect, perpendicular
To plant inside something.
Not to mention "dick" is "sik" in Turkish.
Gather : Getir (To take something or someone to a certain place, to bring)
Here is a funny one:
Alligator : eli götür (chops off hand, gulps down hand, snaps the hand off)
There are other coincidences in this coincidence.
Dik also means the following in Turkish:
Erect, perpendicular
To plant inside something.
Not to mention "dick" is "sik" in Turkish.
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If we are at definite articles:
ال is the Arabic definite article (pronounced "al" in MSA/Fus'ha and "el"/"il" in most of the dialects) [Semitic language family]
el → Spanish def. art. masc., il → Italian def. art. m.(, le → French def. art. m.) [Romance language family]
ال is the Arabic definite article (pronounced "al" in MSA/Fus'ha and "el"/"il" in most of the dialects) [Semitic language family]
el → Spanish def. art. masc., il → Italian def. art. m.(, le → French def. art. m.) [Romance language family]
I always assumed it's not a coincidence, that it's related to the Arab occupation of Spain.
Spanish "el" comes from Latin "ille", as do the related forms in other Romance languages. It has nothing to do with Arabic.
Yes, that is, what literature has taught me, too. Romance def. art. are derived from Latin forms of ille/-a
The following words mean "this", if not refered otherwise. They all contain a coronal consonant in the beginning:
French: ce [sə]
Turkish: şu [ʃu] → that (slightly: pej.)
Arabic: هذا ['hæːðæː] (in other dialects: ده [dæh], or ذا [ðæː])
German: dieser ['diːzɐ]
Hebrew: זה [ze]
Scottish-/Irish-Gaelic: seo [ʃoː]
Icelandic: þessi ['θɛsːɪ][/plain][/quote]
French: ce [sə]
Turkish: şu [ʃu] → that (slightly: pej.)
Arabic: هذا ['hæːðæː] (in other dialects: ده [dæh], or ذا [ðæː])
German: dieser ['diːzɐ]
Hebrew: זה [ze]
Scottish-/Irish-Gaelic: seo [ʃoː]
Icelandic: þessi ['θɛsːɪ][/plain][/quote]