Word coincidence

Red Arrow

Senior Member
Nederlands (België)
No, that's not correct. There are certain common words to call a woman names based on her looks, if you're into that kind of thing, but 'draak' is not one of them.
You don't believe anything I say : / As I've said in my previous post, I recently found out about it, but that doesn't mean it's a new or unknown word. My parents know what it is, and they are in their 50s. (one is from Antwerp and the other one from Brabant)

This is what I found on Google.
http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/draak
draak: lastig, onuitstaanbaar persoon; twistzuchtig mens; engerd. Vaak gaat het om een lelijk iemand. Het woord is niet uitsluitend van toepassing op vrouwen. Zo kan men het ook over een draak van een jongen hebben. Het scheldwoord werd reeds opgetekend in de werken van Potgieter.
It does exist, but you can apparantly say it about men too.

And this is from a forum for girls.
wat betekent draak ? - Girlscene Forum
 
  • Hans Molenslag

    Senior Member
    Dutch
    Red Arrow, you said: "An ugly woman is often called a draak (=dragon) in Dutch." I'm not saying people never say so. With a little bit of verbal creativity, you can basically use any word as a term of abuse in the right context. But 'draak' is not generally used that way, and certainly not often, as you put it.

    This is what I found on Google.
    http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/draak

    It does exist, but you can apparantly say it about men too.
    Exactly my point. This is about both men and women, and it's about nastiness and other negative personality traits. It's not primarily about physical looks. I rest my case.
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    With a little bit of verbal creativity, you can basically use any word as a term of abuse in the right context.

    I agree.
    Tolkien might be an inspiration. "You stupid smaug!, You stupid orc!" :) or Shakespeare (cannot recall any old-fashioned word)
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    yes, Frnak, the Hungarian word is really inspiring I think it is a neologism, the English equivalent could be "dragonization", but I doubt natives would accept it.
     

    Medune

    Senior Member
    Portuguese- Portugal/Brazil
    Portuguese and Japanese

    Portuguese né?: a contraction of não é? (isn't it?, don't you think?)
    Japanese particle ne: ね (isn't it?, don't you think?)
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Icelandic gaur, pronounced [gøyr], slang term for "guy, man"; earlier meaning was "wretched man" < Germanic *gaura- "mourn"

    French gars, pronounced [gaR] "guy, man"; earlier meaning "boy, lad" < garçon "boy" < Germanic (Frankish?) *wrakkjo- "vagrant, wanderer", cognate with English wretch, etc.

    ---

    Arizona
    (US state) < Spanish Arizonac < O'odham arizonak "having a small spring" or possibly Basque arizonak "good oaks"

    arid zone = "region with dry land" (Arizona is known for its deserts)
     

    Red Arrow

    Senior Member
    Nederlands (België)
    Portuguese and Japanese

    Portuguese né?: a contraction of não é? (isn't it?, don't you think?)
    Japanese particle ne: ね (isn't it?, don't you think?)
    In Dutch we can also say ''Nee?''. (It just means ''no'')
    At the end of a sentence ''toch'' is more common, though.
     

    ancalimon

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Turkish - English

    getir : get (it) here
    götür : get (it) there
    getir : gather
    getirir (getirir) : gatherer
    git : , get to, go
    Portuguese and Japanese

    Portuguese né?: a contraction of não é? (isn't it?, don't you think?)
    Japanese particle ne: ね (isn't it?, don't you think?)

    In Turkish, "Ne?" means What?, What is it?.
     
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    Nawaq

    Senior Member
    français (France)
    French gars, pronounced [gaR] "guy, man"; earlier meaning "boy, lad" < garçon "boy" < Germanic (Frankish?) *wrakkjo- "vagrant, wanderer", cognate with English wretch, etc.
    Just a little correction... gars in French is pronounced "ga", no R. :)
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Just a little correction... gars in French is pronounced "ga", no R. :)

    I guess Icelandic gaur and French gars aren't really close enough to be on this thread, then. :) (Unless Icelandic speakers sporadically drop the final -r.)
     

    ancalimon

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Here's something I found about a possible relation (or a series of coincidences) between the Greek word "Gaia" (earth) and Turkic "kaya" (rock, testicles)

    First of all I would like to talk about cognates of the Turkic word and possible relations.

    taş: stone
    taşak: testicles

    kay: to meld, to join together, to amalgamate, to unite, to become assimilated, to become very close with each other.

    kayın: the sacred beech tree on which family trees were carved, kinship between families which is the result of two marriage. (kayınana: motherinlaw, kayınbaba: fatherinlaw), tree of life which links the material world with the spiritual world.

    Kayı: The boy (branch) of Oghuz tribe that founded Ottoman empire. It means power though marriage.

    *Kạb- : 1 bark 2 shell 3 husk 4 bran
    *Kab- : 1 to unite, bring together 2 be brought together
    Kavra: comprehend, conceive, embrace, come together, assemble

    Gaia in Greek culture is a personification of the Earth, She bore Uranus (Sky), Mountains, Pontus (Sea); Gaia in Scythian is Api, in Türkic Èbi "primogenitoress".(Türkic "apa" has a connotation "senior female relative" - Translator's Note)

    Avestan
    gaiia 'life;'
    gaēθā '(material) world, totality of creatures'
    gaēθiia 'belonging to/residing in the worldly/material sphere, material'
    gairi 'mountain'

    After seeing these coincidences (and the old accepted theory about Scythians speaking Turkic before the incidents leading to Scyhtians turning into Persians) here are my ideas.


    The sperms want to get inside the egg. One of them merges with the egg.
    This process is called "kaynaş" in Turkic. Two or more different things merge~combine together to form a new thing.
    Just like little grains of sand and stones combine together to form a rock and Earth, a sperm and the egg combine together to form a human being and all the people as a commune.

    So I can see a poetical coincidence between an egg, and Gaia and the all Turkic words related to kaya, kayın.
     
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    ancalimon

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Here's a mystical coincidence.

    Greek "Orthodox" <> Turkish Orta Dokuz (Middle Nine)

    The Turkic armies (army : ordu) used a tactic called the Turan tactic. The best soldiers and also the leader were gathered at the middle (orta). The middle part consisted of nine compartments. So they were called the "orta dokuz" (the middle nine).

    They attacked the enemy in a traditional "orthodox" way :) ,but started to pull back encouraging the enemy. At the same time two wings of horsemen surrounded and ambushed the enemy. So while the attack started in an orthodox way, it ended up in an unorthodox way.

    orthodox
    ˈɔːθədɒks/
    adjective
    adjective: orthodox; adjective: Orthodox
    1. 1.
      following or conforming to the traditional or generally accepted rules or beliefs of a religion, philosophy, or practice.
      "Burke's views were orthodox in his time"
      synonyms: conservative, traditional, observant, conformist, devout, strict, true, true blue, of the faith, of the true faith
      "an orthodox Hindu"
    2. 2.
      of the ordinary or usual type; normal.
      "they avoided orthodox jazz venues"
     

    Messquito

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Taiwan 中文 Taiwanese Hokkien 臺語
    Examples where Chinese has similar word pairs that correspond to two different meanings of the same word in English:
    1. Swallow = 燕(yàn)(a bird) / swallow = 咽(yàn)(a verb)
    2. bow = 弓(gong)(a tool) / bow = 躬(gong)(verb)
    3. shoot = 射[ʂɤ] (as in shoot a bullet) / shoot = 攝[ʂɤ]影 (as in shoot a photo)
    4. pupil ~ 童[tong](kid) / pupil = 瞳[tong](of the eye) (even more: in Malay, pupil of the eye is "anak mata (eye's kid)", in Greek κόρη means girl or pupil of the eye)
     

    franknagy

    Senior Member
    4. pupil ~ 童[tong](kid) / pupil = 瞳[tong](of the eye) (even more: in Malay, pupil of the eye is "anak mata (eye's kid)", in Greek κόρη means girl or pupil of the eye)

    Hungarian:
    pupilla = black of the eye from Latin.
    There is a rarely used pure Hungarian traslation of "black of the eye": "szembogár"<-"eye+bug".
     

    Messquito

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Taiwan 中文 Taiwanese Hokkien 臺語
    I found this one watching Crayon Shinchan クレヨンしんちゃん:
    Japanese: ラジャ![rajya] = Roger! = Yes, sir!
    Chinese: 了解 [ryaujye] = Understand = Yes, sir!

    In the anime, when Shinchan is supposed to say ラジャ!, he says ブ.ラジャ(=bra), which is funny.
    Taiwan translates it to 胸。照辦!,照辦=Do as you say=Yes, sir! 胸罩(胸。照)=bra.
     

    Messquito

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Taiwan 中文 Taiwanese Hokkien 臺語
    I'm not sure if this one is a coincidence, but it does seem like that from the etymology
    English: college (con-(together)+lege(to appoint))
    Spanish collegio

    vs

    Arabic كُلِّيَّة (kulliyya) (from كُلّ kull (all, everything))
     
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    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    English rip < Germanic *rupjan

    Finnish repi- "to tear", cognate with other Finnic words such as Estonian rebida "to tear", and possibly also with North Sami râppât "to open"; further origin unknown, possibly onomatopoeic
     

    Messquito

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Taiwan 中文 Taiwanese Hokkien 臺語
    I found one within a single language:
    In Italian:
    uscire (v.) exit (uscire [uʃ:ire] < Latin exīre (go out))
    uscio (n.) exit (uscio [uʃ: o] < Latin ōstiu (door))
    It is not entirely a coincidence, because uscire, predictably escire, changes e to u because of contamination from the semantically and morphologically similar uscio.
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Old English gād "point, spearhead, pointed stick" (the source of modern Eng. goad), from Germanic *gaid- "goad, spear"

    Icelandic gaddur (stem gadd-) "spike", from Germanic *gazd- "stick, rod", the source of German Gerte "switch, twig" and English yard, whose earlier meaning was "stick for measuring" (this applies to yard in the sense of "3ft."; yard in the sense of "outdoor area behind a house, etc." has a different origin)
     
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    Sardokan1.0

    Senior Member
    Sardu / Italianu
    German : Jäger (hunter)
    Sardinian : Jagaru (hunting dog)
    southern Corsican : Ghjacaru, Jacaru (dog)
    Basque : Zakur, Txakur (hunting dog)
     
    Eng. day < Proto-Germanic *dagaz < PIE *dʰegʷʰ- to burn cf Lat. fovēre, to keep warm, favour
    Ancient (Greek) Cretan δίᾱ díā (fem.), day < PIE *die̯u- heaven, daylight cf Skt. द्यु (dyu), heaven

    Eng. care < Proto-Germanic *karōną < PIE *ǵeh₂r- ‎to shout, call cf Lat. garrīre, to chatter
    Ancient (Greek) Aeolic denominative v. καρέζω kărézō, to be fond of, care < Aeolic name for heart κάρζᾱ kắrzā (fem.) < PIE *ḱē(r)d- heart cf Lat. cor, heart

    Εng. eye(s) < Proto-Germanic *augô < PIE *h₃okʷ-/*h₃ekʷ- to see, eye cf Lat. oculus
    Homeric Greek φάεα pʰắĕă (only neut. pl.), eyes < PIE *bʰeh₂- to shine cf Skt. भा (bhā), light

    Fr. frapper, to hit, strike < Proto-Germanic *hrapōną/*hrapjaną, to touch, scratch < PIE *(s)krep-/*(s)kreb- to scratch, engrave cf Eng. rap, to seize, snatch
    Classical Greek ῥαπίζω rʰăpízō < *ϝραπίζω *wrăpízō, to beat with stick, hand (possibly Pre-Greek)
     

    Dymn

    Senior Member
    Eng. care < Proto-Germanic *karōną < PIE *ǵeh₂r- ‎to shout, call cf Lat. garrīre, to chatter
    Ancient (Greek) Aeolic denominative v. καρέζω kărézō, to be fond of, care < Aeolic name for heart κάρζᾱ kắrzā (fem.) < PIE *ḱē(r)d- heart cf Lat. cor, heart
    And Latin carus, from PIE *keh₂ro-, although with a slightly different meaning. I had always thought care was a Latinate word.

    Edit: It seems *keh₂ro- is also the source of English whore :eek:
     
    Eng. flower < Old Fr. flor < Lat. flōs < PIE *bʰleh₃- to blossom cf Gr. φύλλον pʰúllŏn (neut.), leaf, plant
    Classical Gr. masc. φλόος pʰlóŏs (uncontracted)/φλοῦς pʰloûs (contracted), bloom of a plant < PIE *bʰleh₁- to swell, flow cf Lat. fluere

    Eng. lord < Old Eng. hlāfweard (hlāf, loaf of bread + weard, ward, keeper).
    Homeric Greek λάρς lárs/λᾱέρτης lāértēs (masc.), lord of the house, lit. he who excites the people (also Odysseus' father's name) < Mycenaean syllabary e-ti-ra-wo interpreted as ἐρτίλαϝος ĕrtílawos, possibly related to the Homeric v. ἔρετο érĕtŏ, to provoke, stir > Classical Gr. v. ἐρέθω ĕrétʰō, with obscure etymology.

    Eng. v. to love < Proto-Germanic *lubojan < PIE *le̯ubʰ- to love cf Lat. libēre.
    Ancient (Greek) Doric v. λάω, to wish, desire < *λάϝω *lắwō (with obscure etymology).

    Lat. monēta, lit. adviser, an epithet of Juno (from which the Eng. word for money derives, as at the temple of Juno in Rome, money was coined) < PIE *men- to think cf Lat. monēre.
    Classical Greek epithet of Ἥρα Hḗrā (Juno for the Romans) μονίᾱ (Ἡραμονίᾱ Hērămŏníā), Hera the changeless, steadfast < Classical Greek nominal μόνος mónŏs (masc.), -ίᾱ mŏníā (fem.), -ον mónŏn (neut.), alone < *μόνϝος *mónwŏs < PIE *mon-u̯o-alone cf Arm. մանր (manr), small, thin.

    Disclaimer: I understand that the latter does not fit 100% the OP's requirements, but I think it's interesting that two ancient peoples used a similar (at least phonetically) epithet for the same goddess.
     
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    franknagy

    Senior Member
    Hungarian: zizi means
    1) a candy sold plastic bags
    2) somebody who a bit mad. "Zsuzsi egy kissé zizi" = "Susie is a bit mad."

    Spanish hago
    The Hungarian noun hágó means a mountain pass. EXample: Brenner-hágó.
    The Hungarian present participle used for male animals fucking female ones.
    Example: "A fehér kancámat hágó fekete szamárcsődör." = The black donkey stallion bulling my white mare."
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    I am interested in the rare phenomenon of "word coincidence" in different languages.
    What I am specifically looking for is a situation when:
    1. There are two different languages A and B.
    2. The language A has a word M. And the language B has a word N.
    3. The words M and N have identical or close meanings.
    4. The words M and N are pronounced alike. (Not exactly the same, but still pretty "alike" to be recognizable).
    5. M and N are not borrowed from the same source. (M is not borrowed from B; N is not borrowed from A; M and N are not borrowed from the same third language).
    6. M and N are not derived from the same source due to genealogic affinity of A and B languages.
    7. The languages A and B may be completely unrelated linguistically, or may still be allied - that does not matter if conditions 1 to 6 are met.

    Here is the definition of what a word coincidence is. It has nothing to do with false friends.
     

    Dymn

    Senior Member
    I know that Sanskrit has had a strong influence in the Indonesian area so it's likely not a coincidence but at least Wiktionary doesn't mention it in the etymology of barat:

    Hindi (and mutatis mutandis other Indian languages): भारत bhārat "India"
    Malay (and mm other Malayo-Polynesian languages): barat "west" (India is located to the west of these languages)
     

    Sardokan1.0

    Senior Member
    Sardu / Italianu
    English : hood
    Sardinian : cuguddu - from Latin : cucullus

    is the English "hood" related to Latin? The pronounce of "hood" is identical to the highlighted part of "cuguddu"
     

    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Welsh pen ”head” < Celtic *kwenno- "head“

    Mansi päŋ “head“ < Finno-Ugric *päŋe "head“
     
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    ilocas2

    Banned
    Czech
    Greek: κεφάλι (kefáli) - head

    Czech: kebule - head (pejoratively, expressively)

    It's somewhat similar.
     
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