XがXなら (expressing disapproval)

[quiver]

Hi there, I am reading the explanation for XがXなら in "A Dictionary of Advanced Japanese Grammar" (pag. 101). They define this pattern as "a structure presenting a counterfactual situation which indicates that things would be better if something were really good or appropriate". I understand the general idea as well as most example sentences, such as:

会社が会社ならもう少しましな給料を出してくれるのだろうが。
"If my company were a really good one, it would probably pay a bit better salary, but..."

However, the authors go on to say:"Usually N (the noun) in the construction is hypothesized as good [...] but sometimes it can be negative, as in (1)."

(1) a. 親が親なら子供も子供だ。"The parents are really bad, but the children are the same."
(1) b. 医者が医者なら看護師も看護師だ。"The doctors are terrible, but the nurses are the same."

Here is my doubt: are these sentences general statements about entire categories of people? In other words, is the speaker cynically claiming that parents and children, doctors and nurses are pretty bad *in general*? Or, are these statements about some specific people the speaker has in mind (e.g. the children attending school X and their parents; doctors and nurses working at hospital X)?

 

[KLAUSED]

I think the construction is mostly used the way it is in these examples.

(1) a. 親が親なら子供も子供だ。"The parents are really bad, but and the children are the same."
(1) b. 医者が医者なら看護師も看護師だ。"The doctors are terrible, but and the nurses are the same."

会社が会社ならもう少しましな給料を出してくれるのだろうが。
"If my company were a really good one, it would probably pay a bit better salary, but..."

This use is similar to 世が世なら and 時代が時代なら, but 時代が時代なら (and probably 世が世なら too, despite what the dictionary says) can be followed by a negative statement.
時代が時代なら死刑になっていただろう。

Edit: Reading SoLa's comment made me realize I didn't address your questions at all 😅

 

[SoLaTiDoberman]

(1) a. 親が親なら子供も子供だ。"The parents are really bad, but the children are the same."
(1) b. 医者が医者なら看護師も看護師だ。"The doctors are terrible, but the nurses are the same."

Here is my doubt: are these sentences general statements about entire categories of people? -->No.

In other words, is the speaker cynically claiming that parents and children, doctors and nurses are pretty bad *in general*?---> No.Or, are these statements about some specific people the speaker has in mind (e.g. the children attending school X and their parents; doctors and nurses working at hospital X)? -->Yes!

 

[quiver]

I see. @KLAUSED -san, @SoLaTiDoberman -san, thank you very much