[Y] at the beginning of a sentence when written by a pen or pencil.

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sb70012

Senior Member
Azerbaijani/Persian
Hello,
Look at the picture below please:
Untitled.jpg

When I want to start a sentence with "Y", typing the capital letter "Y" is easy. But in hand writing it's so difficult to write "Y" with a pen or pencil as #3. I mean "Y" in #3 is hard to be written by pen or pencil but "Y" in #1 and #2 are easier to be written by pen and pencil.

This is my question:

Can we start the "Y" at the beginning of the sentence as #1 or #2 when writing something by pen or pencil? or we should write as #3?

Thank you.
 
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  • e2efour

    Senior Member
    UK English
    I don't remember ever having written Y using method 3 (perhaps I did so when I learned to write).
    The rules for writing a capital Y talk about it being above and below the line and taller than the smaller letters (o and u). So there is no capital Y in 1 or 2.
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    The form of the capital y is very often what you give in 2, though the other two are also seen; it depends on when and where we learnt our handwriting.

    However, its position is wrong: it should be written on the same line as the lower-case o and u, and should extend higher than them, otherwise it's not a capital. All capitals sit on the line and rise above lower-case a, e, o, x etc.
     

    Hermione Golightly

    Senior Member
    British English
    There are different writing styles but writing a Y like the typed Y is absolutely not necessary. The capital can be exactly like the lower case but of course bigger and stopping on the line, not below it.
    Only two strokes are needed.
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    I've just looked into this further and discovered that American Cursive even suggests forming the capital y like your example 1, and letting its tail fall below the line!

    Having said that, I gather that American Cursive is in decline (hooray!) and Italic is increasing in use (much more beautiful!). My advice: look up Italic handwriting on the net and choose a simple modern cursive (i.e. joined-up rather than art-form) version. You'll see that there is no hard-and-fast form for the Y, but it's always taller in proportion to the lowercase.
     

    sb70012

    Senior Member
    Azerbaijani/Persian
    Thank you for answering, everybody. But I didn't receive the answer of my question. Which one do you yourself write if you write a letter with a pen? #1 or #2 or #3?

    For example:

    You didn't take your wallet. ==> if you write "y" with your pen, according to which "y" you will write it? #1 or #2 or #3?
     

    Hermione Golightly

    Senior Member
    British English
    I do not write 3. I said how I make a capital Y- with two movements. It's the same as my lower case y except for its position between the lines and its size.
     

    RM1(SS)

    Senior Member
    English - US (Midwest)
    In boot camp we were required to write them like your #2, but entirely above the line; I still write them that way. Before then I used your #3 (again entirely above the line).
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    I find all three versions equally easy/difficult to write, but 2 is a bit simpler than 1 or 3. Two straight lines, where the bottom of the top-right to lower-left stroke touches the line.

    If I am using pen or pencil to create hand-written typefaces, I would use an appropriate form of #3. For normal handwriting, #2.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Having said that, I gather that American Cursive is in decline (hooray!) and Italic is increasing in use (much more beautiful!).
    Correlation does not imply causation. Less time is being spent teaching handwriting in the US so many children only learn block letters. I don't know of any children who are being taught italic.

    We use paper like this when we are taught to write in elementary school. I can't write very well with a mouse. Excuse the sloppiness.

    handwriting.png
     

    Packard

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    My handwriting has deteriorated over the years so I went back for some source information. It matches up with my memory. The upper case "Y" is just an elarged lower case "y".



    (I was a proficient typist even in high school in the 1960s as I was planning on becoming a journalist. I used to hide that skill lest people roped me into doing their typing. Nowadays typing proficiency is probably assumed foe all office workers.)
     
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    Minnesota Guy

    Senior Member
    American English - USA
    I form my capital Y much as in the original example #2. In size, it's like Myrmidon's first example in post #13--ascending to the maximum height, but not going below the base line.
     

    Truffula

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    All three versions shown in the original post appear, as well as Myridon's examples, and others (a letter U on a vertical | for example, I've seen that - both with a short | centered at the bottom of the U, and with a full length | to the right of the U).

     

    Packard

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    All three versions shown in the original post appear, as well as Myridon's examples, and others (a letter U on a vertical | for example, I've seen that - both with a short | centered at the bottom of the U, and with a full length | to the right of the U).

    Most of these examples are not cursive, but hand written "print". I thought the OP was asking about cursive writing.

     

    Packard

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    I thought it was just handwriting - that covers a lot of ground:D I like the picture, though:)
    I guess I misread. It is "hand writing" (as written above) versus "handwriting" which is what I thought we were discussing.

    "Hand writing" is any writing done without machine of some sort; "handwriting" is cursive.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Collins WRF suggests there may be variation here :

    handwriting /ˈhændˌraɪtɪŋ/ n
    1. writing by hand rather than by typing or printing
    2. a person's characteristic writing style: that signature is in my handwriting
    Ngrams show hand writing and hand-writing were dropped long ago in favour of the one word version (the two word version may still be used as you describe:))
    I would venture that not all handwriting is cursive i.e. using cursive script, especially with definition 2 in mind.

    Cross-posted
     

    sb70012

    Senior Member
    Azerbaijani/Persian
    Thank you for answering.
    Untitled.jpg



    So,

    You mean I should write as 2 right? 2 is acceptable when starting a sentence with "you."

    Yes? 2 is right and 1 is wrong.

    Am I right now?
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Thank you for answering.
    View attachment 19382


    So,

    You mean I should write as 2 right? 2 is acceptable when starting a sentence with "you."

    Yes? 2 is right and 1 is wrong.

    Am I right now?
    When people refer to "the line" they generally refer to the one in your image that is broken ( -------). The bottom of the Y should touch the ------ line, not go below it. Myridon's example illustrates that. (In his example, Myridon uses a red line to illustrate where the bottoms of most letters touch - like the tail of the calitaly, and the small o and u)
     
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    Mrs JJJ

    Senior Member
    USA
    English (British)
    What is important is not is the "tail" of the letter Y, but the top of it. The top of the letter needs to be higher on the page than the top of most* of the letters that follow it. Just as it is when you type it on a keyboard. That's what really indicates that it is a capital, or upper case letter.


    (* i.e. The top needs to be higher than letters such as o, m, n, s, r, etc. Obviously, letters such as d,f, k, etc. stick up above the other lower case letters, both in print and in handwriting. The top of the Y needs to be at least as high as the d,f, k, etc., and, in my opinion, a bit higher.)
     
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    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    What is important is not is the "tail" of the letter Y, but the top of it. The top of the letter needs to be higher on the page than the top of the letters that follow it. Just as it is when you type it on a keyboard. That's what really indicates that it is a capital, or upper case letter.
    Indeed, and that is true for all capitals. The default font used by the forum is a good example to copy for practising handwriting: YyYyYyaceIDEAH :)
     

    Truffula

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    Both 1 and 2 are lowercase letters "y" and should not be the form used at the beginning of the sentence.

    The shapes are fine (both shapes are fine) but the placement is wrong.



    The top row is capitals and go at the beginning of the sentence. All the forms are fine.

    The bottom row is lowercase and should not be used at the beginning of a sentence.

    Both in the example are wrong but here they are, corrected so they are both right:

     
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