you / ye in Irish

[Tabac]

In the song "Danny Boy" we have: you must go and I must bide; but come ye back. Is there an actual difference in usage? Is it poetic license? I'd appreciate any illumination here.

 

[Eltheza]

Hi!

'Ye' is the old plural form of 'thou' , so it should really be, "... but come thou back." But this doesn't 'flow' in the same way!

So it probably is poetic licence and also perhaps dialect usage.

 

[Pedro y La Torre]

Note that ye, as the plural form of you, is still in standard usage in many parts of Ireland.

 

[pickarooney]

'Ye' is generally used as a plural 'you' but in the song lyrics it appears to only refer to one person (Danny). In that respect it's both inconsistent and illogical, but this is a song we're referring to.

As a side note, there is a type of ballad in traditional Irish music which is often referred to as a 'come-all-ye' (not hugely dissimilar to Bob Dylan's The Times They Are A Changin') which may have influenced the lyrics of this song.

 

[berndf]

"Ye" is the original second person plural nominative while "you" is the original objective case form of "ye"; so, it was originally
Ye see me (Old English: Ge seoþ me(c))
and
I see you (Old English: Ic seo eow(ic))

In early modern English the nominative "ye" was replaced by "you". In dialectal and poetic use the old form is still sometimes used.

Maybe because "come ye" is a set phrase the old form is preserved here?

 

[Matching Mole]

Ye, in addition to its plural meaning, was also "sed instead of thou in addressing a single person (originally as a mark of respect or deference, later generally...)" [OED]. The OED has many examples which demonstrate, over the course of four or five hundred years, the change from it being a mark of respect to its general use in respect to any person. The later examples seem to show preservation in dialect and regional speech rather wider usage.

 

[Tabac]

Thanks to you [ye] all.