zdarzyć się

  • Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    [...]It is also important to remember that there is no present form of "zdarzyć się". [...]
    We can use it in the present too.

    Czasami zdarza się, że paczki nie dochodzą.
    Zdarza mu się zapomnieć zeszytu, ale to każdemu się zdarza.
     

    JakubikF

    Senior Member
    As far as I am concerned perfective is zdarzyć się and imperfective should be zdarzać się. Wtedy zdarzyło się coś niespodziewanego. Zawsze zdarzało (better przydarzało) mi się coś niespodziewanego.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Just wondering if zdarzyc sie is perfective, if so what is the imperfect counterpart?
    Thanks!!!
    I don't know why JakubikF deleted his posts, but since he did, I will reanswer your question in a way I understand the matter.
    Yes, zdarzyć się is perfective;
    Wypadek zdarzył się w piętek.
    The zccident happened on Friday.
    Its imperfective counterpart can be zdarzać się, which is in fact what I used in my previous post, e.g.:
    Zdarzało się, że się spóźniał.
    It happened that he was late.

    Tom

    Edit: JakubikF, your first answers were different I can see you have changed your mind now.
     

    JakubikF

    Senior Member
    Thomas I had deleted my posts... just before you wrote yours. I thought it over a bit more and I said to myself at loud this verb and I noticed my big, obvious mistake :p. I think I am too tired to answer posts today.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Well, I didn't mean to imply that dziać się was wrong, since I am not sure myself of that--in fact I think it was a nice addendum since it is indeed an imperfective verb, and to the best of my knowledge can be an imperfective counterpart of zdarzyć się. :)

    It happened in King August's times...
    implying an imperfective action could translate also as:
    Działo się to za czasów króla Augusta...

    Tom
     

    JakubikF

    Senior Member
    So... once again. The deleted post was about the verb "dziać się" which seemed to me a imperfective counterpart of "zdarzyć się" at the first glance. If we consider it deeper it seems to be a good choice too. I suppose that most of people use "dziać się" instead of "zdarzać się". We should consider Tom's example: "Działo się to za czasów króla Augusta" means that some activity "was happening" during a period of time when king August ruled the country. "Zdarzyło się to za czasów Augusta" means that an activity happened and ended (just one point on the time's axis) while August ruled the country. "Zdarzało się to za czasów Augusta" means that some similar but independent actions (e.g. wars with the same country) took place while he held the power. It could be pictured as several points on the time's axis.
     

    slavian1

    Member
    Poland, Polish
    I think "zdarzać się" is not imperfective form of "zdarzyć się". One is single-action verb, second is multiply-action verb. In my opinion those verbs don't have imperfective forms.

    For comarison:

    --------------Imperfective Perfective ---------------------Imperfect Perfect
    single action --iść-----------pójść ---------------------------?-----zadrzyć się
    multiply action-chadzać------chodzić--------------------------?-----zdarzać się

    Maybe in fact the first "?" should be repleced with "dziać się" but I'm not convinced. Have no idea what should be used instead of second "?".
     

    Hal1fax

    Member
    Canada, English
    I think "zdarzaæ siê" is not imperfective form of "zdarzyæ siê". One is single-action verb, second is multiply-action verb. In my opinion those verbs don't have imperfective forms.

    For comarison:

    --------------Imperfective Perfective ---------------------Imperfect Perfect
    single action --iœæ-----------pójœæ ---------------------------?-----zadrzyæ siê
    multiply action-chadzaæ------chodziæ--------------------------?-----zdarzaæ siê

    Maybe in fact the first "?" should be repleced with "dziaæ siê" but I'm not convinced. Have no idea what should be used instead of second "?".

    We were saying zdarzaæ siê is the perfective of zdarzyæ siê, not the other way around

    zdarzaæ siê - zdarzyæ siê

    ° to happen
    zdarza siê, ¿e... it happens that...

    also can stac sie work too? instead of zdarzac sie or dziac sie?
     

    JakubikF

    Senior Member
    Yes hal1fax. It can also be an equivalent of "zdarzyc sie" but not "zdarzac sie". Stac sie means that something happened and, as I'm used to say, it is just one point on the time's axis. By the way. Is something wrong with Polish font?
     

    Hal1fax

    Member
    Canada, English
    Yes hal1fax. It can also be an equivalent of "zdarzyc sie" but not "zdarzac sie". Stac sie means that something happened and, as I'm used to say, it is just one point on the time's axis. By the way. Is something wrong with Polish font?

    I was at school the character encoding on the computers is f*cked
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I didn’t want to delve into grammar intricacies as I found it better to follow the suit of Hal1fax’s thinking, just to leave the things easier, Slavian1’s added a lump of salt…

    Zdarzać się is an iterative verb whereas zdarzyć się is a momentary verb.

    There is also zadarzyć vs zdarzać which have quite a different meaning from the previous two (~bring about, cause sth happen/occur) and are not frequently, if at all, used in modern Polish (you may skip them if you learn Polish, as I am fairly sure you won’t need them).
    Zdarzyć is perfective and zdarzać is imperfective.
    Frankly speaking I can hardly think of any context where zdarzać would be used… I would more likely expect its perfective counterpart zdarzyć in some Old Polish writings.
    After some pondering I came up with the following:
    Przyjmował z pokorą co mu los zdarzał.
    which is redolent of Old Polish and I don’t think anyone in this day would use it (i.e. both zdarzyć and zdarzać).
    Here is an example from Mickiewicz:
    Z tobą tylko szczęśliwy, z tobą, moja droga!
    Bogu chwała, że taką zdarzył mi kochankę,

    Some thoughts:
    I don’t think we can form an iterative form since zdarzywać doesn’t sound good to me, though I may not be aware whether such a form exists. In this case it would be się that adds the iterative implication. Wouldn’t then zdarzać się originate from zdarzać?


    ***

    Just wondering if zdarzyc sie is perfective, if so what is the imperfect counterpart?
    Thanks!!!

    We were saying zdarzaæ siê is the perfective of zdarzyæ siê, not the other way around

    zdarzaæ siê - zdarzyæ siê
    [...]

    Hal1fax, your posts are a bit confusing, in the first one you are saying that zdarzyć się is perfective and in the second you seem to take zdarzać się for it.:confused:

    Tom
     

    Hal1fax

    Member
    Canada, English
    I didn’t want to delve into grammar intricacies as I found it better to follow the suit of Hal1fax’s thinking, just to leave the things easier, Slavian1’s added a lump of salt…

    Zdarzać się is an iterative verb whereas zdarzyć się is a momentary verb.

    There is also zadarzyć vs zdarzać which have quite a different meaning from the previous two (~bring about, cause sth happen/occur) and are not frequently, if at all, used in modern Polish (you may skip them if you learn Polish, as I am fairly sure you won’t need them).
    Zdarzyć is perfective and zdarzać is imperfective.
    Frankly speaking I can hardly think of any context where zdarzać would be used… I would more likely expect its perfective counterpart zdarzyć in some Old Polish writings.
    After some pondering I came up with the following:
    Przyjmował z pokorą co mu los zdarzał.
    which is redolent of Old Polish and I don’t think anyone in this day would use it (i.e. both zdarzyć and zdarzać).
    Here is an example from Mickiewicz:
    Z tobą tylko szczęśliwy, z tobą, moja droga!
    Bogu chwała, że taką zdarzył mi kochankę,

    Some thoughts:
    I don’t think we can form an iterative form since zdarzywać doesn’t sound good to me, though I may not be aware whether such a form exists. In this case it would be się that adds the iterative implication. Wouldn’t then zdarzać się originate from zdarzać?


    ***





    Hal1fax, your posts are a bit confusing, in the first one you are saying that zdarzyć się is perfective and in the second you seem to take zdarzać się for it.:confused:

    Tom

    lol sorry for the confusion Tom! I meant the opposite, the guy above confused me and I wrote the wrong thing, I understand what you told me=)
    Zdarzyć się-PERFECTIVE, COMPLETE ACTION
    Zdarzać się-IMPERFECTIVE, INCOMPLETE, ONGOING ACTION
    thats what I meant=)
     

    slavian1

    Member
    Poland, Polish
    Zdarzyć is perfective and zdarzać is imperfective.
    Frankly speaking I can hardly think of any context where zdarzać would be used… Tom

    Well, what about past tense?

    "Zdarzało się (mu) wielokrotnie spóźnić"
    "It happened many times (to him) to be late"

    Rare? Imperfective?
     

    JakubikF

    Senior Member
    "Zdarzało mu się wielokrotnie spóźniać" (not spóźnić). The reason is that spóźnić is a single action and spóźniać is a multiple action. "Raz zdarzyło mu się spóźnić" - this is a correct sentence where you could use "spóźnić". Both sentences are quite common but which one is used depends on a context and on what you really want to say.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Well, what about past tense?

    "Zdarzało się (mu) wielokrotnie spóźnić"
    "It happened many times (to him) to be late"

    Rare? Imperfective?
    Slavian1, your are mistaking my point, I'm afraid.

    The comment of mine you quoted pertains to zdarzyć/zdarzać when used without się. The meaning in this case is transparently different from zdarzyć się/zdarzać się. Can you come up with a sentence using zdarzyć/zdarzać that would sound natural and its use would be just in modern Polish? I can't.


    Tom
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    "Zdarzało mu się wielokrotnie spóźniać" (not spóźnić). The reason is that spóźnić is a single action and spóźniać is a multiple action. "Raz zdarzyło mu się spóźnić" - this is a correct sentence where you could use "spóźnić". Both sentences are quite common but which one is used depends on a context and on what you really want to say.

    Zdarzało mu się spóźniać
    zdarzało mu się already implies an iterative action
    spóźniać implies another one
    thus that makes two of them and it implies that it happened more than once and he was actually sort of notorious for his being late in comparison to:
    Zdarzało mu się spóźnić.
    spóźnić-implies a momentary action
    so the whole sentence implies that he it happened more than once and that there weren't many of these incidents.

    I think it is the word wielokrotnie that makes the usage of spóźnić rather off, isn't it?

    Tom
     
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