Zumutung

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Cincimatti

Member
USA English
Here's a puzzle I never could solve.
What's the best way to convey the essence of this word?

Du warst also gestern im Theater; wie war die Vorstellung?
- Ach nee, vier Stunden lang und das kreichende Gesang! Das war wohl die reinste Zumutung.

(Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!)

Imposition, Impertinence don't really hit it on the head for me.
 
  • kanoe

    Senior Member
    France, French
    "c'est le comble !" "quel culot!" ?
    Ou (plus figuré) : "insolence" "insensé" ?

    What exactly are you trying to say ?
     

    Voxy

    Senior Member
    Deutschland, deutsch
    Here's a puzzle I never could solve.
    What's the best way to convey the essence of this word?

    Du warst also gestern im Theater; wie war die Vorstellung?
    - Ach nee, vier Stunden lang und das dieser kreischende Gesang! Das war wohl die reinste Zumutung.

    (Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!):cross:
    Meinst Du vielleicht in etwa:
    Oh Gott, meine deutsche Rechtschreibung!
    (as in "Lord, look at my German spelling, a disaster it is!" ;)

    Imposition, Impertinence don't really hit it on the head for me.
    If the two words you came up with by your own just don't hit it,
    than I have to improvise a bit. ;)
    What about: What a waste!
    or
    What an experience!

    EDIT: Another possibility just crossed my mind: What an attack!

    more freely: That scoffed my mind!

    Voxy
     

    Cincimatti

    Member
    USA English
    I found "effrontery" (I have never heard this word before).

    "Une effronterie" ?
    ef·front·er·y (plural ef·front·er·ies)

    noun Definition: shameless nerve: behavior or an attitude that is so bold or arrogant as to be insulting

    [Late 17th century. < French effronterie< late Latin effront- "barefaced" < Latin front- "forehead"]


    I like it. Thanks, kanoe, for getting me thinking on the French track. Is the meaning the same in French?
     

    kanoe

    Senior Member
    France, French
    you're right! I hadn't thought about this one
    i wouldn't use it in this case, though...
    The meaning is really close, but i hear it as more...personal. You can call a child "éffronté". Maybe not an operahouse staff or organisation...
    and it dosen't imply patience. It's more like "rude"
     

    Voxy

    Senior Member
    Deutschland, deutsch
    I considered "disgrace" too, but in my opinion it doesn't carry the
    physical pain you're suffering, which is implied within "Zumutung".

    If *something* is a "Zumutung" you're truely suffering by
    that particular *something*.

    There is a wellknown English idiom, which I use pretty often to express
    my disgust: This is just a pain in the ass. I guess that particular idiom is way
    too colloquial. But I think it is close to that, what Cincimatti is looking for.

    Suggestion: What a pain! or I really suffered pain!

    Voxy
     

    Cincimatti

    Member
    USA English
    Here it is:

    An audacity!

    Definition: 1. boldness or daring: daring or willingness to challenge assumptions or conventions or tackle something difficult or dangerous
    2. impudence: lack of respect in somebody's behavior toward another person
     

    Voxy

    Senior Member
    Deutschland, deutsch
    Here it is:

    An audacity!

    Definition: 1. boldness or daring: daring or willingness to challenge assumptions or conventions or tackle something difficult or dangerous
    2. impudence: lack of respect in somebody's behavior toward another person
    All right. How do you tackle the entire English sentence then?
    Is it like: Heck, what an audacity!

    Voxy
     

    wickerman

    Member
    US English
    I think "audacity" can only be used to describe a person's attribute, not really a thing or event. You'd say "he had the audactiy to say that to you?" but not "That was an audacity!"

    What cyanista suggested, "total/sheer disgrace," definitely fits in my opinion, although you're right Voxy, it doesn't imply the suffering of the listener. That's probably the best translation, but my dictionary also had a few other suggestions:

    etw. ist [einfach] eine Zumutung -- sth. is [simply or just] too much;
    der Film/die Schauspielerin war eine Zumutung -- the film/actress was appalling
    das Essen war eine Zumutung -- the meal was an affront


    I especially like "affront." It's almost like the meal was an attack on our delicate sensibilities!
    [edit: It's probably related to "effrontery." Ihr seid mir zuvorgekommen!]

    wickerman
     

    Cincimatti

    Member
    USA English
    Das war wohl die reinste Zumutung.

    (Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!):cross:
    Meinst Du vielleicht in etwa:
    Oh Gott, meine deutsche Rechtschreibung!
    (as in "Lord, look at my German spelling, a disaster it is!" ;)

    Voxi:
    Im Gegenteil, ich meinte meine (mangelhafte) deutsche Rechtschreibung sei ebenfalls für den Leser eine Zumutung!
     

    Voxy

    Senior Member
    Deutschland, deutsch
    Das war wohl die reinste Zumutung.

    (Wie mein deutsches Rechtschreiben!):cross:
    Meinst Du vielleicht in etwa:
    Oh Gott, meine deutsche Rechtschreibung!
    (as in "Lord, look at my German spelling, a disaster it is!" ;)

    Voxi:
    Im Gegenteil, ich meinte meine (mangelhafte) deutsche Rechtschreibung sei ebenfalls für den Leser eine Zumutung!
    I see. Now I get it.
    (...) Das war wohl die reinste Zumutung.
    Genau wie meine deutsche Rechtschreibung. ;)
     

    Cincimatti

    Member
    USA English
    Voxi:
    Sorry, I just joined the forum yesterday. I used to be quite profficient in German, but I moved back to the States 5 years ago and I've become a bit rusty. Which, in turn, is where this forum is a huge help! It shouldn't take long to get it back.

    :)
     

    dec-sev

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Hi Voxi and Cincimatti. I'm confused.
    Is far as I got it, the author has visited a theater and didn't like it at all. What I don't understand is "Zumutung". I looked the word up in the dictionay and found three meanings none of which seems to fit the context:
    1 Impretinence, 2 imposition, 3 unreasonable demand.
     

    Hutschi

    Senior Member
    "Zumutung" ist im vorliegenden Kontext eine Kombination aus "Frechheit" und "Unvermögen", eine Art Provokation.

    Sie zeigen etwas, was man niemandem anbieten kann, obwohl sie vom Standpunkt des Zuschauers aus wissen müssten, das man so etwas nicht tut.

    Viele empfinden allgemein Ausstellungen moderner Kunst und modernes Theater, welches einen stört und verärgert, als Zumutung.
     

    Voxy

    Senior Member
    Deutschland, deutsch
    Hi Voxi and Cincimatti. I'm confused.
    Is far as I got it, the author has visited a theater and didn't like it at all. What I don't understand is "Zumutung". I looked the word up in the dictionay and found three meanings none of which seems to fit the context:
    1 Impretinence, 2 imposition, 3 unreasonable demand.
    :)
    Hi Dec,

    Cincimatti is seemingly looking for a more colloquial expression
    than the three words you've suggested. ;)

    Voxy
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I suggest "ordeal."

    In my opinion, that conveys the right emotions, and it's quite commonly used in contexts like this one.

    -So you went to the theater yesterday. How was it?
    -Oh brother, four hours of that screeching music! Let me tell you, it was an ordeal!
     

    Cincimatti

    Member
    USA English
    dec-sev:
    In short, I mean to imply that the performance was too long and the singer or musical style was unbearably amateurish or extreme. i.e. "That was really expecting a lot [of patience/grace] of the audience!"

    As I understand it:

    Das kannst du uns nicht zumuten!

    has the same flavor as

    You can't expect us to have to put up with that!

    Another example:

    I was working in a store where we all had to wear uniforms. One day, the supervisors informed us that the company was changing the uniform, and presented a few samples of the new ones. They were so ugly that one of my colleagues cried out, "Das ist doch eine Zumutung!" meaning "You can't possibly be serious, expecting us to have to wear those ugly things to work!"

    elroy:
    yes, ordeal is good. Thanks for that.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I don't think you're going to find an English translation that works in every context. Therein lies the beauty of the German word!
     

    gaer

    Senior Member
    US-English
    The whole thing was a total/sheer disgrace.

    (?)
    I would be more likely to say: "It was pure torture."

    Context would make clear if the "torture" was the result of something that was "disgracefully bad", etc., etc.

    I'm not sure if there is anything that really works in English.

    Gaer
     

    bh7

    Senior Member
    Canada; English
    Meaning 3 fits in this case. The director (singers) made the demand on the audience to listen to their singing, their production, and this demand was considered highly unreasonable by the speaker. So I'd translate this as:
    What d'you mean, we sat there for four hours and listened to this blasted [godawful] shrieking. That director [singer][or: they] really expected a bit [a tad] much [from his/her/their audience]!
     
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